the castiles at the cafe wha? in the 60's

[dari]

i got home from going to the movies on sunday with lesterx and her friend matthew (great movie, btw..”.chain camera”...a small indie) and found an email from a school friend i have been looking for for many years. needless to say i was shocked and thrilled to have found her. we used to take life drawing classes at the new school on west 12th on saturday mornings and then go hang out in washington square park . then we’d head on over to the night owl or cafe wha? where as i have stated here before we attended what i remember as teen shows (no alcohal) in the daytime and we saw the castiles for the first time.
now (you are asking yourself) why should any of this be of any consequence to us here on the bruce board. well...the answer to that is that this woman remembered the shows much better than i did (she kept a diary which helps) and in fact remembered the names of some of the other bands we had seen there besides jimi hendrix. out of curiousity i looked up some of the bands she named on the internet and found an interview with one of the guys in one of those bands who has some really interesting things to say about bruce. here is probably one of the earliest memories of bruce in a band from the guy who wrote the song “i love rock and roll”(joan jett) and happened to have been in a band that played at the cafe wha? along with bruce in the 60’s.
so glad i found my girlfriend too as i don’t really have anyone else i can talk to about them. just wish i remember them better......................

here’s part of that interview from a magazine in japan where alan merril lives now:


"A:The band played mainly at "The Cafe Wha ?" in Greenwich Village, where they were a regular house band. They also played at hippy events like The Palm Gardens with "Group Image" and at some wild Timothy Leary parties. There were also many high school and college events this group played at in the Westchester area of New York.
The other bands playing at "The Cafe Wha?" at this time were Kangaroo (with Jon Hall on bass, who eventually formed "Orleans", and ALSO "The Castilles" (Bruce Springsteen's early band) who were also regulars. These were the "day shows" and no alcohol was served.
At night people like RitcHie Havens and Jimi Hendrix played this club. It was an exciting time.

H:Oh really. I know Bruce's band took the name from soap.Do you remember some episodes at the time ?

A:When Bruce Springsteen first played at the Cafe Wha, I showed him and his band where to set up his gear, and basically we got along very well. We had an instant liking of each other that is so easy at that age. Bruce was new to the city, and had been in New Jersey which is a pretty sheltered place to grow up. He was not yet worldly.He had a homosexual man named Josie make advances to him. Josie did this everyone, but Sprinsteen was really freaked out, because Josie would grab at the young musicians and touch the private parts and was very playfully aggressive. I calmed Bruce down and explained that Josie was harmless, and that he did this with everyone, and Bruce relaxed and then told Josie to go away.
It was a funny moment. Josie would grab your private parts and say, "How's your hammer honey". The first time it happened it was shocking, but then you got used to it. He was just a character of the Village scene. He got many many punched and blackened eyes. Josie was a poor lost soul.Bruce played his first set at The Cafe Wha and I remember he did mostly R&B covers.
We sat together and I showed him Ted Spelios playing with Kangaroo. Bruce was totally freaked out. Ted was just incredible. He was so good we all just wanted to give up playing. I hear that Ted became mentally ill, then recovered, and became a monk. Anyway, this is the legend. he was, after Hendrix, the best player in the Village. The Kangaroo album didn't really show how amazing he sounded, although he is impressive on it.

H:The first appearance of The Castilles was December '67.

A:Jon Hall and kangaroo came from Wasington D.C. Jon was a student of guitarist Roy Buchanon. He played bass in kangaroo. A Hofner. ted Spelios played a Fender Broadcaster. The first Broadcaster I ever saw. It had a terrible high action, but Ted could play it. When Bruce and I tried it we were horrified. The strings were so high off the fret-board. Teddy was a wierd genius. He burned out very young. His last band was Holy Moses. Then he was smoke and
dust. Gone. That was your Greenwich Village taste for the day circa 1965-68."


dari

[Hidinonabackstreets]

Wow, Dari...you sure can dig up some ghosts..Sounds like an exciting time to be in NYC. Jon Hall still plays around Nashville
in the clubs. I'm sure he's in the writing community too as just about everyone in the biz tries it on a little when they come here to play, visit or live (even Frampton has a place here now).

Roy Buchanon was a great blues guitar player who's story ended pretty sadly. He's the guy I had confused with Bruce when the Born To Run album started to become nutorious.

I'd not heard of Ted Spelios, but he sounds like he coulda been kindred spirits with Peter Green of Fleetwood Mac fame. Peter was such a purist, that he thought when ever any sort of fame came along, the music was being sold out. You could say this is an early punk attitude, but it was actually about the blues. Peter quit Fleetwood Mac as they started to gain noteriety and was a grave digger for years, struggling with mental health problems. Another casualty along these lines is Syd Barrett (I think that's the name..) the founder of Pink Floyd.
Although, there is speculation that his mental breakdown was more of the self-induced acid casualty school. All around them at the time seem to agree, however, they were both brilliant.

[dari]

well hidin

i guess you and i are the only ones really interested in the music cause more people want to read about the saturdy night exploits of someone else's date than about early bruce.

maybe this is one of the reasons other places tend to look at this one as pathetic. i am beginning to agree with them...... :+(.

if ted spelios was only a step behind jimi than i think i want to try to track down some of those early kangaroo recordings.if he had bruce's jaw hanging open than he sounds pretty damned amazing as a guitarist. some of the best artists (in every field) are just this side of functional so it doesn't surprise me that so many wound up the way they did.

i totally agree with you about peter green and in fact did not like/still don't like what fleetwood mac became after he left...sort of like thinking that blood sweat and tears was a group that included david clayton thomas. for me it was only the "child is father to the man" with al cooper and steve katz (as the remnants of the old blues project) that made the group. the rest of it after that was pure pop and unworthy of the name BST created by that first album.


dari

[Dirty Annie]

Dari...I for one would rather read about Bruce than... If I tend not engage in more comments it is only because sometimes I just like to read and enjoy. And very often I am way out of my league in musical expertise. Don't give up hope on us.

[AliDoes]

...ratassbastards! Isn't that what you really meant to say about the board, dari? :D

I'd love to comment, but you guys lost me. But if you find any Kangaroo, dari, I want a copy. It's gotta be great. And thanks for the article and history lesson. Let's jump into the time machine ~ I want to be in Greemwich Village in the 60's. I heard some guy named Bob is doing poetry readings.

[stephj24]

Hey Dari-

Don't give up hope on us yet. I for one too would love to be able to relate to your story and be able to write back, but sadly I wasn't even born yet ;-) But if you do get that time machine going, count me in... living IN history is always the best history!

-Steph

[BronxDarren]

leaving the barbs aside, i knew you had an insane amount of firsthand bruce experience under your belt dari, but damn!! i cannot belive you saw the catsiles. that is just crazy cool.
the first time i heard 'baby i" i got chills that i was finally hearing a piece of myth and legend.
and you were there. and soon when you get my band's demo, you will be at the birthplace of another legend. .....HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :$

[Toots]

What Dirty Annie said :D

Besides today was my first day back at work after an almost month long vacation to restore my mental health. I am a preschool teacher at a daycare center, and believe me it was a much needed break. Reality hit me in the face at 7:00 a.m. as I walked in the door.

I love your stories Dari, and if you ever leave here I will hunt you down and drag you back kicking and screaming. Remember I know where you live!

Love from your favorite sister,

Toots

[LJK]

Okay, I did my part--I just looked at the thread twice.

[cobalt]

When people start making comparisons to Jimi, I always think of Stevie Ray. I;ve been listening lately to Walter Trout, a bluesman who really sounds a lot like Stevie Ray on a lot of his stuff. Many of you may be familiar with Trout, but a friend in the UK only recently turned me on to his music. I guess he's an American, living in Denmark. He's really a helluvan axeman...check him out if you like that Texas bluesman sound that Stevie Ray had mastered.

[Hazeleyes]

Dari,

Glad to see you back posting. Was in Malibu this past weekend for a long weekend (work related) and wanted to say hi, but thought you might be out of town since you weren't posting. Recalled all the fun I had last time I was in LA at BAT II. Can't wait for BAT III.

Please don't desert us for so long. I'm just glad you are back sharing your Bruce knowledge again.

Cindy



[Edited by Hazeleyes on July 30th, 2001 at 08:45 PM]

[Boss MD]

'Jon was a student of guitarist Roy Buchanon.'

I saw Roy in '70 in St.Paul/Minneapolis (hey it was on a riverflat between the two cities...held at the U of M).

Very great concert and (Geez, here I go again...) Lamont Cranston opened for him. Hmmm, beer, sun, the river (no, not The River), good tunes, good friends, trying to find the car afterwards.

Hey LJK...is the Riverflat Jam still a happening thing?

[Bustedsister]

dari, what can we say, you are in a league of your own. But that doesn't mean that no one is reading the thread. Hey, why do people watch Jerry Springer instead of PBS ? It's called junk food for the mind. It's like Swamptramps' "car wreck" analogy. So don't give up here. The ones who matter will check out the important threads...

not trying to mother you...sorry...

[LJK]

No, no more Riverflat Jam. There must not have been enough room to have 1,000 booths with various food on a stick to continue.
Now there is the Taste of Minnesota, which is held on the Capitol and surrounding area, with a free show every night, and the Basilica (did I spell that wrong?) Block Party, which is a two day show with some great bands, but it's always the hottest and most humid weekend of the year.

[ForYou]

Can't remember seeing Kangaroo. They did play at the Peppermint Lounge where I went once but don't remember who was there. John Hall rang a bell as he should."Still The One" and "Dance with Me" and Chuck Plotkin and No Nukes sound familiar? I love the way this stuff all ties together in a big r&r circle.


John Hall and Johanna Schier met in New York's east village in the fall of 1967, a time when it was mainly inhabited by three tribes: Ukrainians, Puerto Ricans and hippies. John played with his band, Kangaroo, at the Cafe Wha? over in the west village for $5 per night and all the whipped cream gas you could inhale. Johanna had the longest blonde hair in New York and wrote for the Village Voice. The Fillmore East, just around the corner, played astonishing, eclectic bills; everyone wore bell bottoms, believed in love and hated the war.
John took a rock band onto a Broadway stage in 1968, when he wrote, directed and performed music for "Morning, Noon and Night", garnering rave reviews and a much bigger paycheck. Johanna's Dad, drama critic Ernest Schier had made the introduction to playwright Israel Horovitz, and the Hall-Horovitz collaboration also produced the off-Broadway Obie-winner, "The Honest-to-God Schnozzola". (Israel is the father of Beastie-Boy King Ad-Rock and the Halls fondly remember Adam crawling around in diapers.)
Johanna was probably the only critic on a major publication who didn't pan Janis Joplin when she left Big Brother and the Holding Company; so Janis' publicist, Myra Friedman, called to say, "Janis wants to meet you--would you like an interview?" You bet. That meeting resulted in a friendship and then a career change. Janis would climb the three flights to their apartment and sing songs around the kitchen table when she was in town. On one visit, she'd just returned from Nashville and she played and sang a new song, "Me and Bobby McGee". On another, John and Janis sang Christmas carols as blues.
Janis was always looking for new songs; John played her some of his and while she liked the music, the lyrics (from an 18-year-old boy's perspective) didn't quite suit. She suggested that John and Johanna collaborate on a song for her. "You're a woman, you're a writer...Write me a song!" And so they did. "Half Moon" was written in the spring of 1970 in a rented house in Mill Valley, California where John's band Thunderfrog temporarily resided...but that's another story.
The Halls (they were Halls now, having married in a Quaker ceremony on September 6, 1969) took their brand new song over to Janis' house in Larkspur. She was rehearsing a new ensemble, The Full Tilt Boogie Band, under the guidance of Todd Rundgren. "Half Moon" was an immediate hit with Janis and her band, and they performed it on every subsequent show, including the Dick Cavett Show. It appeared on the posthumous "Pearl" and was the B side of "Me and Bobby McGee".
Thanks to that generous start, the Halls moved up to the country, painted their mailbox purple and wrote more songs. They still live in the house they bought with "Half Moon" royalties, and under its sheltering roof wrote "Miss Grace" for the Tymes, "Two Faced World" for Millie Jackson, "Good Enough" for Bonnie Raitt, "Dance With Me" and "Still The One" for Orleans...hundreds of songs in all. About 70 songs are active around the world today.
After a trip to Europe (again another story), John came home determined to start a band. Late in 1971, he cajoled Wells Kelly (Thunderfrog's drummer) to come to Woodstock. They were soon joined by Larry Hoppen and worked as a musical-chairs-trio til Larry's little brother Lance graduated high school and joined on bass. The quartet played all over New England, got signed by ABC Records and made their first record as Orleans in Mussel Shoals, Alabama, produced by Barry Beckett and Roger Hawkins. ABC didn't hear a hit on the second self-produced lp but Asylum's Chuck Plotkin did. He signed them when ABC declined to release that record, careful to acquire rights for several of the songs, including "Dance With Me".
The two Elektra-Asylum records produced by Plotkin resulted in hits for the band and the Halls, the biggest being "Still The One". Both it and "Dance With Me" have been played over the airwaves three million times and as of this writing, still get played 100,000 times per year. In 1977 John decided to pursue a solo career, and recorded two solo records: an eponymous Plotkin-produced LP on Asylum in 1978, and the album "Power" for Earth, Wind and Fire's ARC label in early 1979.
1979 was a landmark year for the Halls. Their daughter, Lillian Sofi was born on August 15. In September John played the No Nukes Concerts at Madison Square Garden, the culmination of two years' work organizing with friends Bonnie Raitt, Jackson Browne and Graham Nash. The five nights of sold-out shows resulted in a movie and a record which John co-produced, featuring Bruce Springsteen, Carly Simon, James Taylor, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Chaka Khan, the Doobie brothers, Peter Tosh and others. The combined efforts raised over three quarters of a million dollars for anti-nuclear and alternative energy projects. John and Johanna's song "Power" became the anthem of the event and the movement, and has been recorded by Pete Seeger, Holly Near and Peter, Paul and Mary as well as the version by James Taylor and the Doobie Brothers which was featured on No Nukes.
In the late 1980's, John and Johanna kept an apartment in Nashville and wrote songs for and with a number of country artists. This work yielded recordings by the Oak Ridge Boys, Patty Loveless, New Grass Revival, and Steve Wariner. Steve and John wrote his number one hit "You Can Dream of Me", which featured backup vocals by Orleans. Another highlight was Ricky Skaggs' and James Taylor's duet on "New Star Shining".
A potent connection made during that time in Nashville was the friendship and writing partnership with Jonell Mosser, a Kentucky-born soul singer now residing in Nashville. John and Johanna have focused a lot of their recent writing and production efforts on her, and Jonell's new CD "So Like Joy" is now available from Siren Songs.

Yay-Dari's back!

[Bustedsister]

...okay, ForYou's in the league, too.

[Hidinonabackstreets]

..lemme see..my 2nd finger goes on
this string..and what was that
line you were singin' about all
that stuff?..

"..and I'll smell it and breath it and speak it and see it.."

-Bob Dylan-

[Hidinonabackstreets]

..lemme see..my 2nd finger goes on
this string..and what was that
line you were singin' about all
that stuff?..

"..and I'll smell it and breath it
and speak it and see it.."

-Bob Dylan-

[Belmar]

dari, don't lose heart!

I LOVE your history lessons (and the ones from hidin and ForYou and Steve Kurtz and... ). I fear that if I told you how much I love these things after each one of them it would sound like insipid fawning. Back when you were going to the Cafe Wha, I was at Critters dances - totally oblivious to Bruce. Although I still think "Mr. Dieingly Sad" is a great song, I get sick over what I missed and want to know everything. You have to keep pulling these nuggets out of your memory and your closet and sharing them with us, or what will we do?!?

Oh, and that's great about reconnecting with your friend.

Mary

[Phillyfan1]

Wow Dari..Where do you dig this stuff up girl? It's great ..keep em coming ! And as someone else posted, I love how all this ties together. Thanks !

Philly

[young again]

Hey Dari, keep the stories coming. I got lost in some of the follow-up stories on this thread (though if I know someone who knows the Beastie Boys, do I get to be part of this whole big r-n-r circle too? ;))... but it is funny to think of a young skinny Bruce being all freaked out because a guy is making passes at him. Seeing where he ended up, sometimes it's hard to remember that he was just a kid when he started his career.

[Flory Days]

Another great story, dari. I don't always post but I read them all. Its just that my experience and knowledge pales when compared to you and the others who offer additional nuggets of information. The best I can say is I wish I could have been there at that time. I will have to settle for VH-1 and your posts.

I did watch the Neil Diamond "behind the music" show recently and came away with a new appreciation for Neil, although I still think there is no excuse for those awful shirts. Anyway, he started in NYC in the late50's and early 60's in what they called "Tin Pan Alley". When they were talking about that period they showed street photos including one of the Cafe Wha?, and I again thought I wish I could have been there. Is that place still open?

I guess I am rare in that I always kind of liked Neil, not the love him or hate him reputation that he has. Like Bruce, he is known for his live performances, and he seems to have a genuine caring nature for his fans, and for his band. I think some of the differences between the artist who became Neil Diamond and the one who became Bruce Springsteen are a reflection of the difference in the times and the places they grew up in. While it is only eight or ten years, there was quite a social upheavel in those days, just as there was a huge difference between growing up in Brooklyn vs. New Jersey.

Anyway, thanks for telling these great stories!

[NCBruce Fan]

dari,

I always love reading your stories! They are a great way to learn about the early days from a true fan's perspective. I'm sorry if I don't have the Bruce and musical knowledge base you have. I only became a rock fan and a Bruce fan in the mid-80's. Believe me, if I had more Bruce stories to share, I would! If I had more Brucelegs to trade or give away, I would! I don't think I should have to post my experiences on the last tour 75 times just so there's Bruce related material. I know we all need a new tour, but that's no reason to jab barbs at people if they've never attacked you.

[young again]

Hey Flory, there was a cute little interview with Neil in the New York Times magazine a week ago - read it here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/07/22/magazine/22QUESTIONS.html

(it mentions the beaded shirts, among other things)

[swamptramp]

C'mon dari, remember it is quality over quantity every day of the week.

Sounds like a post from Josie would be a heck of a lot more interesting than any bad date from Saturday night.


[Edited by swamptramp on July 31st, 2001 at 07:09 AM]

[GEEBOSS]

Dari wish that we had digital camcorder and recorders back then. Tough being 51 and remembering shows back in the 60's and 70's.

Here's a poster I thought like.......where you there???????

GEEBOSS


you'll have to cut n paste this web address to a new window


http://members.nbci.com/brucedh/matrixhb.jpg


http://www.ipjnet.com/offer/mus/july/music5_m.jpg

[Edited by GEEBOSS on July 31st, 2001 at 08:16 AM]

[double-click]

Dari, you never stop amaizing me. The stuff you come up with and post here is incredible to say the least. I know what you mean about the board getting full of useless information, suposed to grab my imagination... I Can't Get No.... (sorry, got carried away for a moment there).

For you, that was an incredible story also. It's funny when you guys bring up these old band names, I think that is so cool because I can actually add something to the topic once and a while.

If you guys find any cds, boots or official released cds of Kangaroo or anything with John Hall on it, I would be interested in it. I have looked for cds of the music I have on record albums but have not been able to find it. I have 2 albums from John Hall:
The John Hall Band - Searchparty from 1983.
The other one is Orleans - Grown Up Children from 1986.

All the songs (except 3) were written by John & or Johanna Hall on both albums. The John Hall Band record is a great rock n roll record with lots of great guitar playing and some good harmony with the vocals. I think the song "Love Me Again" was played some on the radio back then. This is something really interesting: both records have the song called "On Hold". This is two completely different versions of the song, one has a regea (sp?) feel to it & the other is a more of a rock song.

I had this tape with a lot of my favorite songs on it and John Hall Band does this song call "I'm The One" - great song. I had this song back to back with Bruce's "She's The One", and it worked well together. I'm The One is a song about how lucky this guy feels to be with this woman he loves. If you ever listened to the song you can't help but see there must have been a Bruce influence when they wrote this one.

[dari]

wow foryou!!!

i sure am hoping that you got that from somewhere cause if you just had all of that info off the top of your head i am way too amazed. i totally forgot about that connection between jon hall and bruce at "no nukes". i wonder if they remembered that they had both played at the wha? at the same time. thanks to both you and double-click for the info on him.

i realized after posting this that i am assuming everyone is as interested in the really early stuff as i am. you might be or maybe you aren't and of course that is your right. i just love finding out everything i can about the things i am most interested in so when i find them i post them. this really had nothing to do with whether i was there or not. as i have often said, i remember nothing about any of the castiles sets. but for me it was like...how many times will you get to hear a person talk about what it was like to know bruce in his first band at one of his first gigs? i only wish the whole interview was done by someone a lot more interested in bruce and he would have probed this guys mind a little more. if any of you took this to be that i was saying....well i was there....that wasn't the intention. any information given in this article was just as new to me as it was to you.

for anyone who found it interesting or informative, great. i have lots of stuff from later years and you may be more interested in reading old articles from the "born in the usa" period for all i know. the weird part is when someone writes about this time period as being "old", from my perspective, i always think of this as really recent stuff and don't assume anyone wants to relive that. but i am more than willing to share that (when i have the time) and will be glad post some things from other periods when i get the chance.


dari

p.s.

to the person who believes that "that's no reason to jab barbs at people if they've never attacked you."...

if you were a little more perseptive (uh oh..i may be getting personal here) you would note that if anyone was being "attacked" it was not the person who posted the thread (i.e. you)...but those who seem to be more interested in reading about that then about bruce. as you may or may not have noticed, i am sticking to my word of over 6 months and have not read or posted on any of your threads. i choose to do this as you may "choose" not to bother with mine. but if you think that what was written was a personal attack well that is your own myopic view. but i can tell you this, that if i chose to get personal, you would know it. it won't be a vague reference to someone else. i just have other things to write and/or care about believe it or not.

[NCBruce Fan]

dari,

I make sure I read your threads because there is always a wealth of knowledge there. I love when you post stories about early Bruce or rock & roll from that period. I feel like I learn something from reading your posts. Believe me, I would not "ignore" your posts over something as silly as you claiming to ignore mine.

Maybe I did misunderstand what you meant, and for that I'm sorry. I did not realize that you were talking about the number of views on a post. I was not on here that much Saturday night, and in fact, did not even see your thread until late Sunday, when it looked as if (to me) I was being attacked. It seemed as if my thread was singled out, even more so now that you have claimed not to have read anything of mine in the past six months, when in fact, there are multiple threads that have absolutely nothing to do with Bruce currently active. At least I tried to make light of something semi-Bruce related in my thread, saying things went terribly, and was topped off by hearing Manfred Mann's horrible version of Blinded.

I'm sorry if you feel I'm angry at you also. That's not true. I wouldn't be stupid enough to start something with the person who makes this board what it is. Peace?

[ForYou]

Dari--No there's nothing at the top of my head. Hall and No Nukes and Kangaroo started swimming around and had to look it up. Your posts always make my brain work better.

[firerich7]

Is it just me,or does anyone else think that there are hundreds of women on this board who wish they were "a homosexual man named Josie" so they could test the charmin and ask "how's your hammer,honey" :) :) ....

[dudley]

me first!
me first!!

[piwi]

Dari, I love your stories although I never posted an answer.

One reason is that the answer always would be "wooow". Second that I don't have anything to tell like this (but when I'm retired I can tell the young people that I know a girl called dari who... :D ) Third reason: it takes me hours to understand long postings (have to improve my English).

What makes me loving this board is the mixture of stories like yours and fun postings. Don't want to miss it anymore.