Religious Liberty (or Lack Thereof) in France

[MerrySunshine]

See below. The French government wants to ban all "conspicuous" religious insignia, including yarmulke for Jewish men, head scarves for Muslim women, and large crucifixes for Christians in their public schools. This, I imagine, they are doing in an effort to make their government run schools completely secular, favoring no one. But it seems to me that in doing this, they're restricting the religious freedom their people, who wear these insignia as part of their submission to their faith. I suppose it's equal opportunity restriction of religious freedom, but to me, that's a bad thing and could lead to even more restrictions on religious freedom. I was wondering what you guys thought.

French headscarf ban stirs Arab, Muslim uproar

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031223/wl_mideast_afp/iran_france_religion_031223141241

CAIRO (AFP) - Arab and Muslim countries are voicing growing outrage at French President Jacques Chirac's support for a ban on the headscarf even if a few intellectuals dispute claims Muslim women are bound by duty to wear it.

Weighing in on the issue of the headscarf, or hijab, are Iranian President Mohammad Khatami (news - web sites), influential Qatari-based cleric Yussef al-Qaradawi and the muftis of Syria, Egypt and Lebanon.

"I hope the French government, which claims to be avant-garde in liberty, equality and fraternity, will cancel this wrong decision," Khatami told reporters in Tehran.

He said the "hijab is a religious necessity and its restriction is a sign of a kind of extreme nationalistic tendency."

After months of heated debate, a committee of French experts last week recommended banning "conspicuous" religious insignia -- including the hijab, the Jewish kippa, or skullcap, and large crucifixes -- from state schools, which are secular.

In a speech Wednesday, Chirac came out in favor of the ban, which he wants written into law by the start of the next academic year.

A Muslim cleric in Qatar urged Muslims Friday to petition French President Jacques Chirac to "reverse his decision" backing a ban on the Islamic headscarf in French state schools.

Sheikh Qaradawi, an Egyptian who has lived in Qatar for years, urged Muslims during prayers last Friday to petition Chirac to "reverse his decision" backing a ban on the hijab.

Syria's mufti, the highest Sunni Muslim figure in the country, wrote to Chirac expressing his "surprise at the ban".

"The Muslim nation sees the veil as one of the foundations of its religion," Sheikh Ahmad Kaftaro wrote, asking the French president to reverse his support for the ban in order to be "in harmony with the glorious history of France."

In neighboring Lebanon, female members of the Shiite Muslim movement Hezbollah criticized Chirac in a statement that said the headscarf was an act of faith rather than an act of political defiance.

Lebanon's Sunni mufti, Sheikh Mohammad Rashid Qabbani, described the French move as amounting to "hatred of Islam" after saying the hijab is "a religious duty mentioned in the Koran."

The French leader's move also brought a denunciation from one of Lebanon's leading Shiite figures, Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah, who called it an "attack on Muslim human rights."

Fadlallah said last week that "wearing the veil is not a symbol of Islam, but is as much a religious commitment as other religious duties, and not to wear it is a sin."

He praised France for its record in supporting human rights, and Chirac in particular for his stand on behalf of Arab and Lebanese causes, but said banning the veil "confiscates the freedom of Muslim women in schools, in society and in public administration."

Criticizing secularism, he said it had sunk to "such a level of weakness that its patrons fear that a wisp of fabric or a kippa on the head, or a cross on the breast will harm it. That is an argument that has no sense."

The mufti of Egypt, Sheikh Ali Gomaa, and the Muslim Brotherhood, whose spiritual guide, Maamoun al-Hodeiby, also criticized Chirac's move.

"The headscarf is a religious duty and not a simple insignia," Sheikh Gomaa said in remarks published in Egyptian newspapers.

The Muslim Brotherhood, some of whose activities are tolerated despite a ban in Egypt, elevated the hijab to the importance of fundamental duties such as fasting during the holy month of Ramadan.

However, some Muslim intellectuals denied it was a duty.

Gammal Banna, brother of the Brotherhood's founder, Hassan al-Banna, and author of several works on the rights of Muslim woman, is categorical. "The headscarf is not an obligatin," he told AFP.

"Neither the Koran, nor the Hadith (the sayings of the Prophet Mohammed) require women to wear a headscarf," the writer said.

"The headscarf mentioned in the Al-Ahzab surat (chapter) of the Koran meant a curtain or a door and not a scarf to cover the head," while the "Al-Nur surat asks women to cover their chests."

"Wearing the headscarf or not is part of a debate on morals and not on religious obligations," he said. "An erroneous interpretation of the Koran leads one to believe that women are obliged to cover their head."

However, Banna did not support the French president.

"Chirac is a courageous man who has taken favorable stands toward the Arabs but I think he was wrong because the issue of dress is a very personal affair," he said.

"Whether a woman wears a scarf or a mini-skirt is a matter of individual liberty," Banna said.

The sheikh of al-Azhar, Mohamed Sayyed Tantawi, avoided being caught up in the debate, telling an Arabic newspaper this week that "it is an internal French affair."

[Sarahbackstreet]

I posted this in the Christina Aguilera Forum:

I'm a devouted Muslim girl,Don't wear a scarf and don't plan to.

However,I think this law is unacceptable,Since a very large number of Muslim women do wear the scarf and it's not just an easy thing to 'take it off',They're messing with people's beliefs.

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I don't agree with the way the scarf has been potrayed as some kind of symbol for Islam,Like it's the Muslim women uniform,Some Muslims act like it's the base of a Muslim women's faith or something,Maybe it was needed at one point in time,But I don't see it as a necessity now,It was never a Muslim thing anyway,Women wore scarves long before.

Ofcourse most Muslims wouldn't agree with me,and most Muslims have very strong beliefs about the matter,So I choose not to argue unless they take shots at me,If women want to cover their hair because they think they're protecting themselves or obeying God's orders then it's fine by me,The scarf has been abused though as seen in Saudia Arabia(where it's not even a choice to wear it) and ofcourse extremes like the Taliban Afghanistan,It becomes an oppression of women when it's no longer their choice to wear it,That's when I have a problem with it,Other than that choosing to cover or uncover your hair doesn't make much difference to me.

It's a choice,and people should be allowed their choices.

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For me it's neither an empowerment nor an oppression,I think people are looking too much into it.

I don't see the harm if a woman chooses to wear it,This law is simply unjustified,so what if a person's appearance reveals their Religion?What's so wrong with that?When did the world become this way?Should we change our beliefs now so that we can be "politicly correct" all the time?No one has the right to tell people what to believe in and simply how to dress,This is getting ridiculous.

[MerrySunshine]

I agree with you 100%, Sarah. Very well said!

[bluehorizonx10]

Originally posted by Sarahbackstreet
I posted this in the Christina Aguilera Forum:

I'm a devouted Muslim girl,Don't wear a scarf and don't plan to.

However,I think this law is unacceptable,Since a very large number of Muslim women do wear the scarf and it's not just an easy thing to 'take it off',They're messing with people's beliefs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't agree with the way the scarf has been potrayed as some kind of symbol for Islam,Like it's the Muslim women uniform,Some Muslims act like it's the base of a Muslim women's faith or something,Maybe it was needed at one point in time,But I don't see it as a necessity now,It was never a Muslim thing anyway,Women wore scarves long before.

Ofcourse most Muslims wouldn't agree with me,and most Muslims have very strong beliefs about the matter,So I choose not to argue unless they take shots at me,If women want to cover their hair because they think they're protecting themselves or obeying God's orders then it's fine by me,The scarf has been abused though as seen in Saudia Arabia(where it's not even a choice to wear it) and ofcourse extremes like the Taliban Afghanistan,It becomes an oppression of women when it's no longer their choice to wear it,That's when I have a problem with it,Other than that choosing to cover or uncover your hair doesn't make much difference to me.

It's a choice,and people should be allowed their choices.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For me it's neither an empowerment nor an oppression,I think people are looking too much into it.

I don't see the harm if a woman chooses to wear it,This law is simply unjustified,so what if a person's appearance reveals their Religion?What's so wrong with that?When did the world become this way?Should we change our beliefs now so that we can be "politicly correct" all the time?No one has the right to tell people what to believe in and simply how to dress,This is getting ridiculous.

I agree too Sarah. This is how the Christian is beginning to feel in our country. We are persecuted for believing and wanting to be open with our beliefs. Many want to take away all our symbols that are a part of our being, things that come natural everyday to us. Many in this country want to take all that away, even to the point of taking away our ways of teaching our children the responsibility and background of Christianity. When the school won't even let a child give his fellow students a bag of Christmas treat candy with the little message of where the candy cane started, people have become fanatics in every sense of the word. I see in the future that Christian's will be subdued to the point of being afraid to let the public know we are Christian's. It sounds like communism in every sense of the word. It's a very sad thing and probably the most sad year in our country's history pertaining to Christianity. The legal battles now are overwhelming against the little things that represent what Christianity has always been to us as children of God.

I see the scarf issue the same as these on Christian's here in the US. All the other cultures and nationalities and beliefs represented in our country are allowed their freedoms while the Christian's are taken away. :bluesad:

Thanks for bringing our attention to this Merry.

[Sarahbackstreet]

I feel the same way,Gail,Just thinking ten years ahead I don't think that Religion will be the same,They're already cornering us the Religious people,We now represent the close minded part of society,we're old fashioned and we're blocking the way to human development by clinging to whatever faith that's left in the world
,everything seems to have been turned upside down,I get very disturbed thinking how life will be like by the time I have children and what kind of world they're gonna grow up in.

I'm sorry but I'm just sick of the way the fingers are being pointed at us now,I don't go up to people and tell them they are going to Hell if they don't believe in God,I'm a harmless human being who happens to believe in God and acts upon that,It's a part of who I am,Muslim,Christian,Jew are not just names we call ourselves,It's the way we chose to live our life,and they're slowly taking that choice away,and pretty soon your predictions will become reality,Gail.

God,I am truly terrified at the turn the world is taking....

[bluehorizonx10]

Sarah, don't distress. Remember what God tells us. No matter what the world thinks or does, we are God's people and He will always take care of us. There's no need to fear. When that time comes that it's so far gone we can't believe without punishment, He will take care of us.

And also always know that as long as we can talk with each other as believer's we have the comfort of knowing there are others in the world that have the same heart of love for our Creator. That puts a smile on my face because love is what it's all about anyway. So let's all here just stay friends and keep our eyes on God. All will be fine then. :)

[Sarahbackstreet]

You're absolouty right,Gail.:)

Ofcourse my faith in God is stronger than anything,I know he'll always be with us,It's just my faith in world that I'm trying to hold on to,and it's getting harder everyday,But I keep praying for everyone,because hope can never be lost.

[Leezard]

Does anyone know why they are considering doing this? From what I understand it's not to stop people from practicing their religion, it's to try to stop religious hate crimes. While I can understand that it will upset a great number of people I can also understand why they would like to try to do this to stop the killings. I haven't been able to find any articles on it but apparently there was a Jewish man that was helping a group of Muslums that had come to France and they all of a sudden turned on him and were trying to kill him, it seems because he was Jewish. If anyone knows any more about this I'd love to see some background, to see what the bigger picture is.

[MerrySunshine]

This just has to do with what's work in their state schools. Right now, people can still wear whatever they want outside of their state schools. So stopping what's worn in their schools would not have helped that man who was attacked. If it is their reasoning, then the logic of it escapes me.

As for where things are presently headed, I am, at least, glad that the US has not gone as far as France on this. I have trouble thinking that it would ever come to that in this country as long as individual liberties are held dear. That's the thing that's in vogue right now in the US -- respecting each other's individual liberties. That's the primary rationale for rulings regarding Christmas decorations, that candy cane thing, etc. They're all seen as an intrusion on other people's individual liberties. (Because the candy cane message isn't kept to the kid himself, but shared with others.) There are many things that can be said about our legal system, but whatever cause is the hot topic, it tends to be equal opportunity about it. So the "individual liberties" thing that protects the secularists should (and I think does) also protect the religious adherant such that each person's individual liberties regarding religious dress and insignia.

The problem for Christians, in particular, is that the Great Commission -- the charge by Jesus to go and spread the good news of His coming -- bumps up against the paranoia in this country about individuals. If a Christian is perceived to be trying to spread the good news, someone will inevitably accuse them of infringing on others liberties. We can take this two ways: we can shake our fist and say how unfair it is, or we can do like Jesus and we can get smart about it and figure out ways to do our job despite what the government says. I know some people will say, "But that's not how Jesus worked. Jesus defied the establishment and then died." But the point the person misses in that is that, yes, Jesus defied the establishment on his last day and was killed. There were several things he did that day that ensured that he was taking a direct stand against them and sending a clear message of his intended overthrow of them (and he was, in his death and resurrection successful). For instance, his riding into the city on a donkey was not only a fulfillment of a messianic prophecy, but a message to the leaders of the city that he was the Messiah and he intended to take his place as King. One might say he provoked them in order to fulfill his purpose on earth. But until then, he worked counter to the establishment as a a bit of an irritation to them, but he didn't shake his fist at them and whine, "hey, that's unfair!" He found a way to do his business despite the establishment. I think we should too. It takes smarter actions, but it can certainly be done and done well. :)

[bluehorizonx10]

I agree, Merry, on the smarter and alternate ways of spreading the Word of Lord. But can you not agree that it's going way too far when they take Christmas out of Merry Christmas, a simple greeting, and take the word Christmas out of a song for children?? There must be some kind of a legal issue in changing the words in a copyrighted song as well. I just find it all very ridiculous. But as my pastor and we were talking in Sunday School this morning, it's going to only get worse by the authority of God's Word fulfilling the prophesy of the coming to the end of times. Not only that, but these that are responsible for taking the name of Christ out of our lives will answer to the wrath of God for their actions. We can be sure of that fact.

[MerrySunshine]

Originally posted by bluehorizonx10
\But can you not agree that it's going way too far when they take Christmas out of Merry Christmas, a simple greeting, and take the word Christmas out of a song for children??

I could agree with that, but I've not heard anything about that happening. Maybe things are worse farther east than they are in Texas, but I have no idea what you're talking about with taking the word "Christmas" out of a song for children or taking "Christmas" out of "Merry Christmas." I've never heard of that happening or seen it happen. Happy Holidays, I've heard -- and, indeed, I use when, especially, talking with Jewish or Muslim colleagues and friends out of respect for them -- and they say the same to me. But everyone else I know, even if they're not really a Christian adherant, says "Merry Christmas" and sings about Christmas in Christmas songs.

What I have seen happen is that the more religious-based Christmas specials -- like the Little Drummer Boy and Nestor the Long Eared Donkey, both of which have to do with the Nativity -- aren't shown on TV anymore. That I have noticed.

[bluehorizonx10]

Both of these incidents were headlined on the news this past week. One male teacher was offended by "It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas" so changed it in the children's school program for them to sing "winter' instead of Christmas. And the 'Merry Christmas' was changed to 'Happy Holidays' instead. I'm forgetting whether that was on banners, cards, or in greetings officially somewhere in a program or whatever. Sorry, I was so shocked I missed the locations. Maybe someone else saw them. It honestly appalled me.

And at church yesterday the pastor's daughter, 5th grade, told of a special journalistic contest she entered making an extradinary Christmas greeting card. She put Merry Christmas on it as a greeting. When it was sent in to enter the contest they called the school and told them she was disqualified with no other chance to enter because of 'Christmas' being on the card. This is in rural NC we're talking about. She lost out on a substantial award for this contest and wanted a chance at it badly. There were no rules stating anything about using the word 'Christmas' as in greeting, so she didn't blatantly go against what they wanted. She was dumbfounded when they called and disqualified her as was her Father. A Christmas card is a Christmas card for Pete's sake. These are the things I'm saying are ridiculous.

[MerrySunshine]

Like I said, maybe things are worse farther east than they are in Texas. I've never seen anything like that and I hadn't heard those news reports either -- so maybe it's more an eastern South thing. Y'all are nearer to the liberal North in NC than we are in TX, after all. ;) (That is a JOKE, lest any Northern dwelling folks are offended. :rolleyes: )

Christmas has become so secularized -- and that song, a secular song -- that, to me, that teacher just made himself look silly. And I doubt we who are religious would be the only ones to think so. I'd also like to know more about that Christmas card contest too -- if they ask for a Christmas card and then DQ you because you, shock!, mention Christmas on a Christmas card for a Christmas card contest, then, that too, is just silly. She and her parents should really file some sort of protest if the rules didn't say you couldn't mention Christmas and she was DQ'd for it. Just saying it's unfair doesn't change the problem. She (more rightly, her parents) should take some action.

[bluehorizonx10]

I probably would register some kind of complaint as well about the card contest. But this was my pastor and he's as humble as a little baby. He'd never go against anything to question something, especially in the name of Christ. His daughter was really down about it though. If I can get the chance I'll ask more questions.

And the news stories, sorry I can't remember the details more, was on Fox News channel. My husband said he thought is was in New Jersey maybe. And I agree, this teacher made himself appear very silly indeed. The children appeared to be like second graders from what I saw when they were singing. He was early 30's or mid 20's probably. The clip was of them singing the song the way he taught them to with him leading them. One little boy was clearly disappointed in removing the name of Christmas and seems like he said something about Jesus too.

[bluehorizonx10]

We may have been confusing the two stories, but I did find the one basic discussion on the website.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105603,00.html



Taking Christmas from the Kids

Friday, December 12, 2003

This is a partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, December 11, 2003, that has been edited for clarity.



SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: A school music teacher in Washington State has come under fire after deciding to replace the word "Christmas" with "winter" in a song that was performed at a concert on Tuesday.

The teacher changed the lyric in Dale Woods' Carol from an Irish Cabin to read, "The harsh wind blows down from the mountains and blows a white winter to me."

We invited the school district on tonight's show. They declined, but they gave us this statement. "Bethel School District policy is to allow both secular and sacred music in holiday concerts. Three years ago, at the request of several Jehovah's Witness (search) families, the teacher substituted "winter" for "Christmas" in one song. Since that time, no one has objected. When it was brought to his attention this year, the teacher asked the students to vote. The majority decided not to change the word. This situation does not represent, 'an agenda' of any sort. It simply shows how challenging it is for public schools to meet the needs of all students and all parents."

Joining us now is Darla Dowell, who pulled her 7-year-old daughter from performing in the concert when the school refused to insert "Christmas" into the song, the original wording.

Darla, welcome to the program. Thank for being with us.

Tell us a little bit more about behind the scenes. You heard ... you got wind of this. You got involved. Walk us through what happened.

DARLA DOWELL, MOTHER: Well, when my daughter asked me why it wasn't OK to say "Christmas" in a song and I saw that they had replaced the word "Christmas" and handwritten the word "winter," I though that was a very legitimate question.

And so I contacted the school, and the principal had no idea about any of this going on. He had decided with the music teacher's input they would try to get the kids to relearn the song and insert the word "Christmas." That didn't happen.

They had a group of 7-year-old children vote on which word they would prefer to have, 7-year-old children that don't have any concept on what this issue really means.

I explained to them I didn't think that was fair to put this back in the kids' court, that they don't comprehend.

HANNITY: I cannot believe, Darla, and I'm with you on this, you can't even mention the word "Christmas" anymore. I mean, this is now madness.

But on top of that, I understand, and I read one news report, you went to this thing, you videotaped this thing.

DOWELL: I did.

HANNITY: And there were references to other holy days of other religions, correct?

DOWELL: That's correct. They sang a song titled Hanukah (search). And it was about the mighty miracle of Israel.

And I don't have a problem with that at all, Sean. I think it's great that we expose our children to different beliefs and tolerance of others' beliefs and diversity. I think that's great.

But at the same time, don't exclude my child's belief. They sent the message to my child that, you know, Christianity is wrong and she should be ashamed of celebrating Christmas. The school sent that message to my child, and I gave them an opportunity to correct that and they failed to do so.

ALAN COLMES, HOST: Darla, it's Alan. I applaud what you're doing, by the way.

DOWELL: Thank you.

COLMES: You and I -- I might disagree with Sean and conservatives on the issue of where that line between church and state is. But in this case, it is absurd political correctness gone amuck. And I applaud what you're doing to stand up to the school like that.

DOWELL: Thank you. I just wish that the school had received my message. They're acknowledging that they were wrong, but they weren't willing to change that.

And I tried to explain to them, you know, what kind of message is this passing on to your students? I have had no response from the superintendent or the principal or anybody about this.

COLMES: It's amazing to me they wouldn't even respond.

I'm Jewish. I grew up singing Christmas carols. What are they going to do next? Bing Crosby's I'm Dreaming of a White Winter?

DOWELL: It wouldn't surprise me. It would not surprise me.

I just wish that they would see the overall picture of what they're doing. The school says that they don't have an agenda, but when -- it's OK to sing Hanukah, and that's not being oversensitive. Then what's the purpose of excluding Christmas? What message are they trying to send our children?

COLMES: And Darla, so what happens now with this? You've stood up to the school. They've not responded. What do you do next?

DOWELL: You know, that's -- I'm exploring my options. I plan on holding the school accountable for their actions. You know, it's time that we sent a message to our schools that it's not OK to push their agendas on our children.

And it's about time that people start standing up. Everyone needs to stand up, make their voice heard. And just stand together and don't step down. We have freedom of religion, not freedom from religion. And any...

COLMES: Have you had other parents participate with you? Are they backing you on this?

DOWELL: No. I have -- There's one parent that I know that is very supportive. No other parents have contacted me. I encourage that. I've had no support at the school itself from anyone.

COLMES: That's truly amazing that you're the only mother, the only parent that has stood up under this outrageous political correctness gone amuck, as I said before. And if you can say Hanukah, you should be able to say Christmas. We're not talking about nativity scenes here.

We're talking about children singing a song. And I think that's how you learn about other cultures if you're not Christian. I think singing these songs don't hurt anybody. It's amazing.

DOWELL: And let me point out to you, too, other songs which they had chose to sing, which could have incorporated the religious aspects of Christmas, they chose Greensleeves. And the Christmas version of that is What Child is This?

So I really do have to say that I strongly disagree with the school district's statement that there is no agenda.

HANNITY: Darla -- Darla, are you going to file a lawsuit?

DOWELL: You know, I'm exploring my options.

HANNITY: What about your daughter? What has been the reaction in school for her since you pulled her out?

DOWELL: I've talked to her every night to make sure that, you know, this is not falling back on her. She seems to be OK. Although she's been sick this week. She hasn't missed any days of school this entire school year, so I'm hoping that this doesn't have anything to do with what I'm trying to pursue.

And I've made clear to the school that this is my battle with them. Let my child be a child. She has nothing to do with this.

HANNITY: All right, Darla. Thank you.

COLMES: Darla, we wish you the very best. Thank you for coming on our show to tell us it and standing up for what you believe in. Thanks very much for being with us tonight.

[MerrySunshine]

This sounds like more of the same we've talked about as regards prayer in school and the fine line school districts must walk regarding religion. And, as they point out, the very confusing one. Sometimes, school districts don't know what to do. I think that's plainly obvious in this story where they thought it was a good idea to give the decision making on this matter over to seven year old children. Even the "liberal" host of that show, though, Mr. Colmes, said that "in this case, it is absurd political correctness gone amuck." And that he applauds what the mom is doing in standing up to the school.

That brings it back to the Christmas card incident with your pastor, though. This story emphasizes that the parents are the ones who have to take a stand. I understand that he's humble and doesn't wish to cause a stink, but so was Jesus humble and Jesus was also strong and took a stand against wrongs -- caused a stink when a stink needed to be caused. I hope you or your husband gently and lovingly encourages him to take a stand on behalf of his daughter and of the children who will surely follow her. I know this next bit sounds harsh and I don't mean it to be so, but here, truely, is a time where your pastor must practice what he preaches if he doesn't want the same thing to happen to another child with that same or a similar Christmas card contest next year. Wringing our hands and doing nothing to change the situation does exactly that: nothing. I'll pray for him and his family in this situation that has been thrust upon him. (And, dare I say, perhaps thrust upon him by God Himself to spur one of his faithful followers to action in His name -- Moses, too, was reluctant, but accomplished much. What if Moses refused the call?) Exactly the thing a pastor should do is question wrongs in the name of Christ. That is part of his call -- not just to instruct and lead his congregation, but to instruct and lead in the community. Refusing to stand up against wrongs in the name of Christ is refusing part of Christ's call. I know it's hard to read these things, but I truely believe that if a pastor won't take such a stand, if our religious leaders won't take such a stand, who will? Who will feel it is their responsibility if our leaders do not take up the call?

[bluehorizonx10]

I truly didn't have the time to talk to them enough to find out the details or if he does or doesn't plan on anything, but I saw he wanted to kinda play it down, it seemed to me because of his daughter. I guess it's confusing for him thinking should I make a fuss over something like this or should I play the role of love everyone and make no ripples in the water.

Maybe tomorrow night at church I can get a chance without it sounding like interference to see if they decided to do anything or even the exact rules on the contest.

To me it's all just totally ridiculous. 'Merry Christmas' is not any more or any less than it's been in all these many years, so why now?? That's my main question, why now from all these unbelievers?

[MerrySunshine]

It does sound odd to me too. http://talk.livedaily.com/images/ld/smilies/suspicious_alt.gif

My granddaddy would have said that somethin' just don't cotton with it. In other words, sounds a bit odd, a bit fishy.

[gggggg]

The French are all DEMONS...

[Céline]

Oh u!

I am French and i agree with this law!
These are non religious schools.

If u want to show ur religion then go to a religious school!!!

[butterfly]

But Celine, what about freedom of expression? OK, there's a slight irony here as if it wasn't for you helping me register, I couldn't make this post disagreeing with you. ;)

I don't think non-religious schools should be atheist schools, which is what has effectively happened.

Btw, about the "Merry Christmas" thing, I sent an e-mail to a Hindu friend just before Christmas and put "Merry Krishmas" on it. A reasonable compromise, I thought!