"Support our troops! God bless them all."

[Mattio]

It's clear that progress between me and most of this forum's population is unlikely. So my (probably) last words here are a quotation fo Albert Einstein, who so ably puts my feelings into words:

"He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice. Heroism at command, senseless brutality, deplorable love-of-country stance - how violently I hate all this! How despicable and ignoble war is; I would rather be torn to shreds than be part of so base an action! It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder"

[tiger_rascal]

I partially agree with that. :biggrin:

That does not mean that I can not or should not pray to God for the safety of all the men and women and all the innocent involved in this war and every day acts of terrorism. I can still ask God to bless people, even my enemies. I support the good that the people in Iraq are trying to bring about.

Progress is what you make it. Respect will get you far.

[tiger_rascal]

I could really get into this, but will refrain.

I would like to add that supporting our troops does not mean supporting death. There are troops who do not want to be over there. Supporting them does not mean supporting the war in general.

[tiger_rascal]

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
--Albert Einstein

Contradictory to the above quote?

[Leezard]

Yes, God bless them :)

[Mattio]

Originally posted by tiger_rascal
The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
--Albert Einstein

Contradictory to the above quote? No.


Fair enough about wishing god's love on everyone, that's very nice :). If people don't want to risk going to war, they shouldn't join the armed services.

[bluehorizonx10]

Fair enough about wishing god's love on everyone, that's very nice . If people don't want to risk going to war, they shouldn't join the armed services.


You're right, it is nice to wish God's blessings on everyone, including the soldiers. The soldiers know the risk, it's their jobs. But it's not their jobs to listen to their own country whine because they are over there and call them names because they are doing their jobs. Most of them that are there are trying to help the Iraqi citizens. I'd hope we support them in that effort. And if you have a loved one there I assure you that support is what you will feel.

The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.
--Albert Einstein

I feel that is worth repeating because of the truth in it.

[bombastical]

Thank you for disrespecting my father.

He was a Marine for 20 years.

He served in Desert Storm.

Your ignorance on the subject is much appreciated.

[Xavier]

Originally posted by bombastical
Thank you for disrespecting my father.

He was a Marine for 20 years.

He served in Desert Storm.

Your ignorance on the subject is much appreciated.
:rolleyes:

[bombastical]

Originally posted by Xavier
:rolleyes:

If all you can reply with is an eye rolling smiley, your ignorance is much appreciated as well.

[Mattio]

Well it deserves a :rolleyes:. I hold those who "joyfully march to music in rank and file" in contempt. I'm not gonna lie about it to save your feelings.

[Slyguy]

Originally posted by bombastical
Thank you for disrespecting my father.

He was a Marine for 20 years.

He served in Desert Storm.

Your ignorance on the subject is much appreciated. Good GRIEF, as if he knew your father was a Marine when he posted his message. :rolleyes: And it's not like your father is reading this anyway.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

I am vehemently opposed to this war. I hope our troops come home soon. Kids are dying over there, on both sides. Just... stop.

[bombastical]

Originally posted by Slyguy
Good GRIEF, as if he knew your father was a Marine when he posted his message. :rolleyes: And it's not like your father is reading this anyway.

It was inevitable that someone who is somehow related to the military would end up reading this thread. And I have every right to reply with my own opinion. My opinion being that the original poster, Mattio, is ignorant on the subject. He thinks he understands why men join the military, and he thinks he can generalize a very large group of people like that. He is very inaccurate in his pathetic assumptions. So to that, sweetheart...:rolleyes:

[Slyguy]

Originally posted by bombastical
It was inevitable that someone who is somehow related to the military would end up reading this thread. And I have every right to reply with my own opinion. My opinion being that the original poster, Mattio, is ignorant on the subject. He thinks he understands why men join the military, and he thinks he can generalize a very large group of people like that. He is very inaccurate in his pathetic assumptions. So to that, sweetheart...:rolleyes: Well, try to lighten up and not take his views so personally reacting as if you're the one who's actually served in the military, dearie. :rolleyes: He shouldn't generalize but what he said does apply to some troops. I'm thrilled my cousin and some of his buddies are no longer in Iraq risking their lives fighting Bush's war and possibly killing anybody so they can earn their salary and benefits. God bless our troops...May God have mercy on them for partaking in savagery.

[bombastical]

Originally posted by Slyguy
Well, try to lighten up and not take his views so personally reacting as if you're the one who's actually served in the military, dearie. :rolleyes:

It really irks me beyond belief when people say this. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be a part of a military family for your entire life. Quite frankly -- you don't know what it's like and thus you too are ignorant on the subject. I urge you to talk to wives of those in the military and I dare you to say something so absurd to them. I'd be amused to see what happens to you.

Originally posted by Slyguy
I'm thrilled my cousin and some of his buddies are no longer in Iraq risking their lives fighting Bush's war and possibly killing anybody so they can earn their salary and benefits. God bless our troops...May God have mercy on them for partaking in savagery.

People who join the military know what to expect. If they don't like the idea of war, they shouldn't join. Simple as that. You seem to miss the point as to what purpose the military serves. And you wouldn't have the rights and freedoms you have today if not for men who fought and died in war.

[Mattio]

All I said was that I find the JOYFUL marching to music in rank and file contemptuous. Heroism at command. Disgusting jingoism. I didn't generalise soldiers in general.

[Slyguy]

Originally posted by bombastical
It really irks me beyond belief when people say this. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to be a part of a military family for your entire life. Quite frankly -- you don't know what it's like and thus you too are ignorant on the subject. I urge you to talk to wives of those in the military and I dare you to say something so absurd to them. I'd be amused to see what happens to you."You are so ignorant" - Is this your automatic set response to anybody who disagrees with you or :rolleyes:? And look at you generalizing as well thinking your family's military life is representative of everybody's elses. My cousin's family have been living a "military life" for the past 15 years and my family is close with them, so don't waste your breath sneering as if I never been around a "military family". I might not be in the military, but I've battled plenty of demons and confronted demons you couldn't even fathom, so don't think I'd hesitate to let people know what I think, no matter how much of inflated sense of infallibility and grandeur they think they have.

I've had plenty of nice, long chats over the years with my cousin's wife who is like a prima to me as well. They've been married for about 15 years and he's been a Marine for over 15 years. She's not the one serving out there nor does she get on her high-horse acting as if she gears up with her husband when they call him in. She doesn't like it when I tell her I think her husband has a bit of a deathwish and got in it for the money instead of saving the world, but she (begrudgingly) agrees. Hell, I've told him as well that he's a cabrón. I've gotten drunk with him and his "buds" and am always so delighted to hear them brag about their wealth and descriptions of combat. :rolleyes: For everybody's sake I hope they're exagerrating.

I know his experience is not representative of everybody elses, but it certainly is of at least some people, so there's no need for the rose-tinted glasses on proclaiming how noble they automatically and collectively are because they're not. And considering all the ugliness and atrocity that war entails, it at minimum stings a bit for all involved, even the many good boys.

People who join the military know what to expect. If they don't like the idea of war, they shouldn't join. Simple as that. You seem to miss the point as to what purpose the military serves. And you wouldn't have the rights and freedoms you have today if not for men who fought and died in war.I love my cousin to death, but I respect him just no more than his recovering drug addict/ex-convict brother (leads a stable life now). Serving in the military doesn't make those men better than civilians and non-military families. Yes, the troops serve a big purpose helping the enthocentric superpower that is the US, but the troops are also just doing a job. You're just a teen, but try thinking for yourself instead of blindly supporting whatever the US decides for you.

War is a damn ugly thing that I will NEVER be grateful or proud of, especially in modern day age. Violence, pillaging, superpower threats instead of diplomacy, flocks of drones out-numbering the opponent, genocide...so the end justifies the means. Primitive nonsense. In the process of saving the world (or just us), our "heros" also murder people. Including innocent bystanders. Those people have grieving families as well. But since they're on the opposing side (doing what they think is supposedly right for their country as well), those people count less. I frequently have to go seek news outlets outside the US to get an actual account of murdered Iraqi civilians since the US media (even the New York Times) solely reports about our troops, God bless them.

[pinky]

So, in other words, UN military involvement in, say, Bosnia, did more harm than good? Taking out the Taliban was a bad thing?

Hitler should have been permitted to go unchecked?


Sure, because Milosevic, bin Laden and the Taliban, and the Nazis wouldn't have killed even more innocents, would they? :rolleyes:

[Mattio]

Yes cos that's what we said :rolleyes:

[Slyguy]

Originally posted by pinky
So, in other words, UN military involvement in, say, Bosnia, did more harm than good? Taking out the Taliban was a bad thing?

Hitler should have been permitted to go unchecked?


Sure, because Milosevic, bin Laden and the Taliban, and the Nazis wouldn't have killed even more innocents, would they? :rolleyes: Engaging in war is something primitive that should stay in the past. War is not a solution. But we're bloody screwed stagnating in evolution and having to pick the lesser of evils. It's not of making a good choice and it being something to be proud of, but making a choice for something less disgusting. It's obviously inevitable...But I won't stop trying to strive for some sense of peace and non-violence.

The US is more obsessed with maintaining an insurmountable dominance as the #1 world superpower vs saving the world of atrocities, and frequently doesn't bother to throw themselves into conflicts until the situation is egregiously bad and/or they have something to gain from it.

Unlike a lot of Americans, I heard of Bin Laden way before 9/11 even happened, yet Bush and also (even though I love Clinton) the previous administration made ineffective, practically non-existent efforts to thwart him and his camps in its infancy. This goes without saying, but 9/11 should have never even happened. I'm not excusing or defending that sick terrotist network's actions, but the US has a part to blame for it occuring. All those situations you cite are cases of not doing a damn thing till it was too bad to ignore. If we're so noble we shouldn't be waiting to attempt to resolve (via war) some conflicts till they're so bad.

It's not just about war. This country has such an arrogant regard for a great deal of the international community and illicits so much intimidation from them that we are practically asking for trouble.

I'm not deluded to think we'll anytime soon achieve some over the rainbow utopia of universal peace and harmony, but we're doing a terrible job of learning from our past mistakes and "war to end all wars" vows.

I'll never be comfortable or at peace with wars. All I can do is demonstrate educating the complacent, try voting out idiots screwing this country up, and hope that whatever wars we get into end quickly. And hope that my cousin or somebody's father doesn't get himself or anybody else killed.

[butterfly]

I used to be a pacifist when I was younger, but now I realise that life is more complicated than that. Some wars need to be fought. Not this one, admittedly, or at least not for the reasons given, but once the soldiers are out there, they deserve our support and respect.

[bombastical]

Originally posted by Slyguy
Engaging in war is something primitive that should stay in the past. War is not a solution. But we're bloody screwed stagnating in evolution and having to pick the lesser of evils. It's not of making a good choice and it being something to be proud of, but making a choice for something less disgusting. It's obviously inevitable...But I won't stop trying to strive for some sense of peace and non-violence.

The US is more obsessed with maintaining an insurmountable dominance as the #1 world superpower vs saving the world of atrocities, and frequently doesn't bother to throw themselves into conflicts until the situation is egregiously bad and/or they have something to gain from it.

Unlike a lot of Americans, I heard of Bin Laden way before 9/11 even happened, yet Bush and also (even though I love Clinton) the previous administration made ineffective, practically non-existent efforts to thwart him and his camps in its infancy. This goes without saying, but 9/11 should have never even happened. I'm not excusing or defending that sick terrotist network's actions, but the US has a part to blame for it occuring. All those situations you cite are cases of not doing a damn thing till it was too bad to ignore. If we're so noble we shouldn't be waiting to attempt to resolve (via war) some conflicts till they're so bad.

It's not just about war. This country has such an arrogant regard for a great deal of the international community and illicits so much intimidation from them that we are practically asking for trouble.

I'm not deluded to think we'll anytime soon achieve some over the rainbow utopia of universal peace and harmony, but we're doing a terrible job of learning from our past mistakes and "war to end all wars" vows.

I'll never be comfortable or at peace with wars. All I can do is demonstrate educating the complacent, try voting out idiots screwing this country up, and hope that whatever wars we get into end quickly. And hope that my cousin or somebody's father doesn't get himself or anybody else killed.

Now I get it. You're a democrat.

[bluehorizonx10]

Slyguy, it seems you might just be the kind of guy to benefit from the knowledge, experience, and respect that the US Military could teach you. I'm certain that there are quite a few drill sergeants that would love to help you understand why this country so desperately needs good soldiers that are allegiant to this country and willing to give up their life for years to do the job they chose. Of course it is is a job you have to want to do to be good at it.

[swangali]

only join the armed forces if you want to get shot. That's what i say.

[butterfly]

I know someone who joined the armed forces because she (back when she was a he) wanted to know how men worked together as a team. He didn't fit in, and now she knows why.

[bluehorizonx10]

Originally posted by swangali
only join the armed forces if you want to get shot. That's what i say.

My son's been in almost 9 years. He's been deployed in many countries. So far, so good.

[bombastical]

Originally posted by swangali
only join the armed forces if you want to get shot. That's what i say.

Oh? My dad was a Marine for 20 years -- never shot.

[pinky]

Originally posted by Slyguy
...War is a damn ugly thing that I will NEVER be grateful or proud of... I, for one, am extremely grateful and proud that brave men and women worked very diligently, at great risk to their own welfare, to fight each of the wars I cited in my last post.

So, YES, Mattio, that is what was said. :rolleyes:

[Slyguy]

Originally posted by bombastical
Now I get it. You're a democrat. :rolleyes: Not exclusively, but I'd much rather align with them than Repuglicans.

[Slyguy]

Originally posted by bluehorizonx10
Slyguy, it seems you might just be the kind of guy to benefit from the knowledge, experience, and respect that the US Military could teach you. I'm certain that there are quite a few drill sergeants that would love to help you understand why this country so desperately needs good soldiers that are allegiant to this country and willing to give up their life for years to do the job they chose. Of course it is is a job you have to want to do to be good at it. I couldn't care less what some (probably homophobic) drill sergeant's idea of what "respect" is. :eek: I don't think the military is no more noble and admirable than your typical teacher, accountant, fire-fighter, doctor, chef, and even a janitor.

[bombastical]

Originally posted by Slyguy
I don't think the military is no more noble and admirable than your typical teacher, accountant, fire-fighter, doctor, chef, and even a janitor.

No one said that.

But the military does have a very powerful way of teaching men proper, traditional respect. And just by what you've posted, particularly the stupid "homophobic" comment, you've proven bluehorizon's point again.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Having been raised in a military family, and having been the only one who didn't go into the military, and having lived on army bases all over the world, and having met and talked with military people all my life, I can say unequivocally, that the military has more homophobes per capita than any other population I've ever come across.

[butterfly]

Originally posted by bombastical
teaching men

And women, let us not forget!

[Tigerclaw]

Originally posted by bombastical
No one said that.

But the military does have a very powerful way of teaching men proper, traditional respect. And just by what you've posted, particularly the stupid "homophobic" comment, you've proven bluehorizon's point again.
If you'll forgive the play on words, "Respect" in what respect?

[Tigerclaw]

As for Mr A*'s original point, my stance towards the (UK at least) troops in Iraq is pretty much summed up as "You don't belong there, so keep your heads down and get the ***** out of there as soon as is appropriate"