Respecting people's religion...

[Allie Lowell]

...as a total 'religion' HATER, I sometimes find it hard to respect people's religions. It's not so much their faith, it's how they show their respect to whoever they are worshipping through physical appearance. Like those women who are FORCED to cover themselves from head to toe in black cloth with just eyeholes to see out of. I walk down the street and feel the urge to rip them off and liberate these women and tell em, it's BRITAN, it's a free country, you are free to choose your culture, your religion, but them women are never free, even when they are born into a free society. They are just baby makers and live lives of the third class. You may say I am ignorant, maybe I am, but women in religion have always been opressed, it's time for the emancipation of women in religion. We are people as well and we DESERVE respect.

[Bazza]

Lets burn our bras. B*gger you all! :mad:

[bluehorizonx10]

You may say I am ignorant, maybe I am, but women in religion have always been opressed, it's time for the emancipation of women in religion. We are people as well and we DESERVE respect.

Have you ever considered the fact that we women who you feel are oppressed are deeply respected because of the discipline we devote to our religion?? I feel very comfortable and special within the confines, that I feel God told me in the Bible was or was not my duties as a woman here, especially since He is the one who created me and our life is His anyway. :)

[Bazza]

Originally posted by bluehorizonx10
Have you ever considered the fact that we women who you feel are oppressed are deeply respected because of the discipline we devote to our religion?? I feel very comfortable and special within the confines, that I feel God told me in the Bible was or was not my duties as a woman here, especially since He is the one who created me and our life is His anyway. :)

That of course is based on your view that we are all created by God. Of course not everyone shares this view and would therefore feel that the teachings are oppressing them.

[bluehorizonx10]

My mistake......I of course thought she was referring to the religious women since they are the ones who wear the traditional clothes she was speaking of. So, yes, of course they do believe in some sort of higher being, and that they live by those beliefs. I was only showing that we that abide by our religious faith in these ways do in fact believe that is the right way. And why should anyone want to change us if we feel we are living by the faith that we, in fact, so deeply believe in?

[Bazza]

I understand what you're saying. When Nike (Allie) said above about females from the East covering up as part of their religion, she believes they are forced to. These were also my views until I covered religion in Sociology and discovered that the woman do it because they want to, they see it as showing their faith in their religion. I suppose it's the same as a Christian wearing a cross as a sign of their religion and faith.

[Bazza]

After reading the original post it appears that the poster was saying that women within religion are opressed. However it's my opinion that religion is widespeard and not only has bearings on the followers but also those that don't believe. Religion is of course a way of controlling the masses and the teachings of the church are often taught to children in school whether it be by the use of biblical stories or singing hymns. I'm not sure about America but many schools in the UK have now made R.E. or R.S. compulsory. I don't see why people that don't believe are forced to learn about it and have these teachings pushed in their face.

[bluehorizonx10]

I'm an older Christian in age and Christian age as well. Most of the usual people on this board know my history as to religion as I've told it before. But I was never as a child pushed or made to learn anything. I went to church because I wanted to go and learn about God. I actually went to two different denominational faiths on Sunday for years as my parents were not of the same denomination, but both Christian just the same. I grew up to choose the Baptist faith and committed myself to Jesus when I was barely on my own. I had a wonderful lady who explained salvation to me in a way I'd never really listened to before in church. When you're young it seems it's easier to be confused and not listen as well to sermons. And it also helps for your parents or peers to explain it all. But my parents were so afraid of stepping on the other's toes I feel I was kept from God for a while because of their and the families insecurities. So it took getting out on my own and metting a wonderful person to tell me of Jesus and His wonderful love and gift for me. Of course that was God sending her my way. My Husband also committed shortly thereafter and that's how we raised our children. They both took Jesus as their Lord and Savior at an early age. That probably was the biggest and best blessing God ever gave me. I could really not ask for anything more after my own salvation. If He never gave me one more blessing in my life that would have been enough. But, thank God, He supplies my every need and blesses me every day that I live.

So.........after all this explanation I will say I do what I do and live the way I live in faith and obedience to our Lord and Savior because it's what I WANT to do, not what someone else tells me to do.

[tiger_rascal]

Originally posted by Bazza
I'm not sure about America but many schools in the UK have now made R.E. or R.S. compulsory. I don't see why people that don't believe are forced to learn about it and have these teachings pushed in their face.

What is R.E. and R.S.?

I feel the same about some aspects of science.

[Bazza]

Religous education or Religous studies.

[tiger_rascal]

We have that in the states, but only at the college level. Unless of course you attend a private school.

Science is not much different when you think about it. Personally, I was sick of having theories such as the "big bang" and "evolution" pounded into my head all throughout my school life. It was rather repetitive and became boring fast, although I love science. I felt that teaching theories, such as those, could easily wait till at least high school and that would save room for teaching more useful things, I know I sure would have enjoyed having more time to learn math, something I was terrible at, rather than theories. Also, that would take away some of the boredom, less repetition.

Just my opinion though.

[bekahbeans]

Being taught and being forced to believe are two different things.

I don't feel that as a Christian woman I'm opressed in any way because of that religion.

[tiger_rascal]

Originally posted by bekahbeans
Being taught and being forced to believe are two different things.

I have to agree with that.

I will also add that you can be taught something, but you can not be forced to believe anything.

[Allie Lowell]

Originally posted by bluehorizonx10
Have you ever considered the fact that we women who you feel are oppressed are deeply respected because of the discipline we devote to our religion?? I feel very comfortable and special within the confines, that I feel God told me in the Bible was or was not my duties as a woman here, especially since He is the one who created me and our life is His anyway. :)

Thing is, it's MEN that enforce these 'respectful acts' and use the bible to their advantage to control women. Personally and this is my own view, the bible is a pile of *respectfully censored*, rewritten down the centuries by men, FOR men. I don;t believe a word of it and any woman, if it is HER choice wants to live her life by the bible, then good ho to her and that, but the majority of women are goverened by men. Women in recent months over here in Britain have been slaughtered by their own father's, brother's in so called 'honour' murder's. These are women, born into a Western society, yet their male relation's feel it is their right to take a knife to their throats if they decide to make a choice and reject the culture that thier parents were born into.

Women are the equal of man. We were NOT born from the rib of man.

[Allie Lowell]

Originally posted by Bazza
I understand what you're saying. When Nike (Allie) said above about females from the East covering up as part of their religion, she believes they are forced to. These were also my views until I covered religion in Sociology and discovered that the woman do it because they want to, they see it as showing their faith in their religion. I suppose it's the same as a Christian wearing a cross as a sign of their religion and faith.

The way I see it, it doesn't matter which religion you are born within or in which country. A woman has the right once she reaches legal age to make a choice, but there are those, especially those who have made Westernized countries their home, who still believe that religion is ABOVE law. Any British citizen upon the age of 18, has the legal right to make their own choices in life and if a woman born within a religious culture has the right to reject or embrace it. No man has the right to take the life of a person he believe's is dishonouring his religion. So many young women have been slaughtered, just because of a religion. It's barbaric.

[Allie Lowell]

Originally posted by bekahbeans
I don't feel that as a Christian woman I'm opressed in any way because of that religion.

Christian religion is not as oppressive to women as other religions, such as the one's that Yemeni women are bred into. Like a lot of things it's a way of life and they no, no other difference, but I have read books where Westen women, born in Britain, have married a Yemeni man, taken back to that country and then basically treated like dirt and they have barely escaped with their lives and have been forced to leave their children behind. Many women of that culture, but born within a Western country are basically sold to Yemeni men and then taken from the freedom of teh country they were born into and forced to live a life of an animal.

Christian religion has more choice. I was bought up in a Salvation Army household. To me, I felt oppressed just by having the wear a Junior Soldier's hat, yet the boys never had to. We had to wear skirts and the women had to wear sick bonnets. That's small fry stuff. What really peeved me off were the women who went to Salvation Army college to become Officer's, upon marriage, did not have thier Title as Captain or whatever recognised, cos their husbands were the commanding officers. It was always Major Jack and Mrs Whatever. Even the women who outranked their husbands upon marriage were demoted. Of course everything has changed now.

I still think the Salvation Army sucks. But like I say, you either reject or embrace the religion you are born into, I REJECTED IT.

[bluehorizonx10]

Originally posted by Allie Lowell
Thing is, it's MEN that enforce these 'respectful acts' and use the bible to their advantage to control women. Personally and this is my own view, the bible is a pile of *respectfully censored*, rewritten down the centuries by men, FOR men. I don;t believe a word of it and any woman, if it is HER choice wants to live her life by the bible, then good ho to her and that, but the majority of women are goverened by men. Women in recent months over here in Britain have been slaughtered by their own father's, brother's in so called 'honour' murder's. These are women, born into a Western society, yet their male relation's feel it is their right to take a knife to their throats if they decide to make a choice and reject the culture that thier parents were born into.

Women are the equal of man. We were NOT born from the rib of man.

I'm sorry that these happenings you speak of are going on in the world. But to be honest, the way a Christian believes, murder would be wrong in any shape or form. And I have to disagree that the men enforce respectful acts and use the Bible to control women. Certainly that is nothing that happens in my area in our Christian faith. The Bible, in God's words, tells us how to live and what to do or not do. And yes, I do believe as it's written, that woman was created, as the Bible states, from man. The Bible is either all or nothing. I take it as true from God and I take it all. You can't pick and chose what you believe if you expect to have full faith in God.

[bekahbeans]

Originally posted by Allie Lowell
Christian religion is not as oppressive to women as other religions, such as the one's that Yemeni women are bred into. Like a lot of things it's a way of life and they no, no other difference, but I have read books where Westen women, born in Britain, have married a Yemeni man, taken back to that country and then basically treated like dirt and they have barely escaped with their lives and have been forced to leave their children behind. Many women of that culture, but born within a Western country are basically sold to Yemeni men and then taken from the freedom of teh country they were born into and forced to live a life of an animal.

Christian religion has more choice. I was bought up in a Salvation Army household. To me, I felt oppressed just by having the wear a Junior Soldier's hat, yet the boys never had to. We had to wear skirts and the women had to wear sick bonnets. That's small fry stuff. What really peeved me off were the women who went to Salvation Army college to become Officer's, upon marriage, did not have thier Title as Captain or whatever recognised, cos their husbands were the commanding officers. It was always Major Jack and Mrs Whatever. Even the women who outranked their husbands upon marriage were demoted. Of course everything has changed now.

I still think the Salvation Army sucks. But like I say, you either reject or embrace the religion you are born into, I REJECTED IT.

True, some religions are opressive to women, I'll agree with that and it's not right.

Just because a certain denomination, or as in your case, the Salvation Army, forces certain things doesn't mean that's what Christianity teaches. There's a difference between the organized religion and the actual faith that it's based on. I personally have huge problems with most religious organizations because often they are corrupt and do try to control and opress people, but that is not necessarily reflective of the actual, basic faith.

I do agree with you that it is our choice to reject or embrace the religion that we grow up in, however I would add that people don't have to accept an organized religion to accept a faith or belief; that's like throwing the baby out with the bath water, not only for Christianity, but for any religion.

[butterfly]

Well, I'm a woman created from man, or at least will be after surgery... ;)

Seriously though, if I felt that 100% of the Bible applied 100% nowadays, I'd give up and just assume that about half a dozen people were going to Heaven and the rest of us were all going to Hell. The Bible has been corrupted over the centuries, particularly by the Emperor Constantine in the 4th century, and there's a lot there that may have made sense 2000 years ago, but doesn't these days. I think a lot of what people see as commands were just helpful suggestions at the time.

I know I'm new to all this, but I only decided to become a Christian on the understanding that God doesn't want us to blindly follow a load of rules that would make us so scared of breaking them that we'd never get out of bed in the morning. I think God wants us to question everything, and make decisions for ourselves, I think the Bible is yet another challenge in our evolution, and we're supposed to have the courage to pick and choose, but to pick and choose the right bits. Just as we have to have the courage to question our parents, so we have to have the courage to question God. We aren't Her (I'll use Her as it seems appropriate for the context of the thread) slaves, we're Her children.

It's consistent with the way that God works, She doesn't give us everything on a plate, we have to work it out for ourselves, it's how we learn about ourselves, so that we can become ourselves. Take me for example, seemingly God said I was male, but I eventually worked out I was female. Am I defying God by transitioning? No, I don't believe I am, I'm just problem-solving. If we didn't have problems, we wouldn't be able to solve them, and we wouldn't learn anything.

I'm totally with Bekah on her last post btw.

[oldernow]

The Bible has not been corrupted. That is a false accusation that has been made many times. An accusation with absolutely no merit, and I think that one should research the Bibles history and why such accusations are made before stating them as a fact when they are indeed false. Nothing personal Butterfly, just making a comment on a subject that has been discussed in this forum repeatedly over the years. The Bible has not changed and can and is still applied today.
Some good advice: Read a chapter in the Bible everyday. And when your done read the Bible again and again.

[bluehorizonx10]

I have to say that I've always believed that God Himself wrote this Bible in the King James version. God had His hand on the writers no different than when He wrote on the wall to Belshazzar, Daniel 5:1-30. It's easy to throw away the old to bring in the new. But the old has stood the test to time. So I take the Bible as a whole and believe in every word of it. We all have to read with our own hearts and let God teach us as we feel it's right. He will open our hearts and eyes to the meanings as He feels we're able to handle it. The Holy Spirit will guide our conscience on understanding the words written if we only let Him.

[Allie Lowell]

Well I'm against every word typed in the bible. I hate it. Passionatly. John List was supposedly a good man, who went to church everyday and was devoutly religious, yet he killed his entire family cos he couldn't cope with the financial strain he was under, yet he didn't kill himself and went on to live life for a good 20 years before he was finally caught. Men like him, who tout the bible and then go against all of it's so called worldy teaching's make me sick.

Like drink was used as an excuse for crime years ago, the bible or religious works in other religions are used as tool's of defense.

This Holy War is just another weapon of religion. It basically nothing more than one man's greed for power.

The bible has a lot to answer for. Yes, it does the power of good within the right hands and taken in the right context within a modern structure - ie women are people now, unlike years before we started liberation - but in the wrong hands it's an instrument of EVIL.

I'm stained cos of the way I was brought up. I have such a hatred for anything religious. I don't mind religion as long as it's not rammed down my throat and for the first 15 years of my life it was. Even when I tried to break free I had to struggle for self emancipation. My mother say's I will see the light and come back one day, but I never will.

It socially stunted me. I have never forgiven religion for doing that to me.

[bluehorizonx10]

Allie, I'm definitely not trying to push you in any direction. I just feel I have to point this out. There are some pastors even that show up for every church service, but are not saved. There will always be people in the world that are OF the world. That means the world takes precedence over God in their lives. ALL human beings are sinners in God's eyes. That means we do wrong things everyday. But God gave us a way out of the devil's powers. That's through Jesus, His Son. Making a committment to God is work, hard work. And at your best you will still sin. But the end to me is worth all the work and denial's that this world might offer me. Heaven is my home and no earthly goal will keep me from it. THAT was my goal when I accepted Christ. So all the bad thrown at me or that I read or see in this world, I know is not the work of religion or God, but the work of the devil. He revels in upsetting God's people. I hope you can get past the anger you feel toward your early teachings.

[pinky]

Allie, I'm not familiar with the case of John List and his crime, but I will tell you that not everyone who goes to church is truly religious....many people put on the outward appearance of something, just for the sake of appearances. This happens not just with religion, but with marriages, professional behavior, police powers, and any of a number of other areas.

While it may be difficult, given your background of feeling forced to accept a religion, I think it's important to try to separate the behavior of individuals from the value of the whole. As a Roman Catholic in America, I've had to face the knowledge that there are many "priests" in my religion who are, in fact, child molesters, and that others, in positions of authority, conspired to cover up their crimes. I despise what they've done, but that doesn't mean that I've lost my faith. I have known many priests over the years who are truly good men. And I accept that the evils of these highly-publicized predators are NOT typical of Catholicism.

In effect, there will always be those who fall short of the goal. That includes most of us. But that doesn't mean that the goal is wrong.

[butterfly]

How can we believe anything that's written down? If I had time, I could easily type out a version of the Bible with the odd word changed here and there. If I had enough power, I could get it published. I could arrange for the existing version to become harder and harder to find. Would God stop me? Does God stop anyone from doing anything evil? He didn't stop Bin Laden.

It's time we took responsibility for our lives and for the world instead of relying on God for everything. God is essentially non-interventionist. OK, He intervened in my life, and I've no idea why. Maybe it was to punish me for something, if it's so hard being a Christian.

This isn't doing my paranoia any good. I've just decided I'll believe whatever makes me happy, because after all, if I'm going to Hell, I might as well try to enjoy the time I've got left here as much as I can. Maybe you should try praying for me.

[oldernow]

How can we believe anything that's written down?
If you do not believe what was written down than why do you believe in God?
To be perfectly honest butterfly, I dont know if you are serious or being over dramatic with "now I will believe in anything that makes me happy" statement. If this subject is too much for you or if you do not want to be shown that your statement made about the Bible can be proven false, than maybe you should not participate in such conversations. I surely dont want to be threatened every time I disagree with you that you are going to do something to yourself or turn away from God because of what I have said. If you are going to ask a question , you may get answers you dont like or agree with. Im in this forum because I love God, and If I can possibly help shed light on the many accusations made against God and my faith I am going to do so.

[butterfly]

I believe in God because of what happened to me last September. I never asked for it.

Now I'm being accused of behaving in a threatening manner, and I don't understand why. If I'm really that bad, why don't people lock me up? Maybe everyone who believes in God should be locked up. We're probably all mentally disturbed.

Gail said that being a Christian is work. Well, I'm excused from work because of problems with anxiety, so where does that leave me?

I'm going to leave now, and get professional help. It's my fault, and I'm sorry. I can't do more than apologise and stop posting here forever.

[oldernow]

Butterfly, please dont take everything so personal. My opinions are not against you. I disagree with your comments, it has nothing to do with you personaly.

[Earl Purple]

Originally posted by bluehorizonx10
Allie, I'm definitely not trying to push you in any direction. I just feel I have to point this out. ......
But God gave us a way out of the devil's powers. That's through Jesus, His Son.

If that's not trying to push, I don't know what is....

G-d gave 7 commandments to all people - one of them is not to murder.

Read Samuel I chapter 15, verse 22:

Samuel said: "Does HASHEM take delight in elevation offerings and feast offerings as in obedience to the voice of HASHEM? Behold, obedience is better than a choice offering, attentiveness than the fat of rams".

Isaiah chapter 58 rebukes the people in a similar way for their (merely ritual) observance of Yom Kippur (the day of atonement). I will quote this chapter on a later occasion should I need to. This section is read in the synagogue as the section of the Prophets on Yom Kippur (after the morning service).

[bluehorizonx10]

Allie, I'm definitely not trying to push you in any direction. I just feel I have to point this out. There are some pastors even that show up for every church service, but are not saved. There will always be people in the world that are OF the world. That means the world takes precedence over God in their lives. ALL human beings are sinners in God's eyes.

I'm sorry Earl Purple if you feel that's pushing, but I'm not, honestly. I try my best to respect everything everyone else says and believes. But I have the right to write what my belief is the same as you. As you can see above I was pointing out that there are people in all kinds of higher Godly postions that are not what they say they are. That was my total point in what I posted back to Allie. Just because someone says they are what they say doesn't mean it's the truth. Knowing the Bible tells you by listening and watching the person, to know for yourself and make your own decision whether to follow their teachings from the Bible.

I love the Old Testament and there is much scripture there to teach us all, that's why God had it there for us. But the New Testament FOR ME also has much knowledge and instruction for us as well. That's why Jesus is my Lord and Savior.

[Earl Purple]

My point was that you are saying the people are sinners, and it is true that people sin because we are born with the ability to do good and evil. And we are also born with a temptation to do evil, known as the Yetzer Ha'Ra. (the evil inclination).

It is because of this inclination that G-d takes pleasure when we resist it and do good.

You claim that atonement can only be achieved through Jesus. Presumably your logic is that without the temple, the service of the Day of Atonement outlined in Leviticus chapter 16 can no longer be performed.

What my last post was supposed to show, from the prophets, is that it is not sacrifices or temple services that reach out to G-d but true obedience of His commandments and repentance from the heart, followed by a change in ones ways.

[bluehorizonx10]

It's time we took responsibility for our lives and for the world instead of relying on God for everything.

Yes, Butterfly, we are to take a responsibility for our actions. But we are to always rely on God for everything. He tells us so in His own Word. :bluesad: He supplies all our needs. If He can take care of the little birds then how much more can He do for us as the scripture tells us?

Gail said that being a Christian is work. Well, I'm excused from work because of problems with anxiety, so where does that leave me?

I only mean that after accepting Christ we don't just ride along from there forward. We are to strive for more of the Bible and learn as a child learns. As scripture says young Christian's take the Word as a baby takes milk and as we grow into older Christian's we take the Word as an adult takes meat. God will supply all, but it's our responsibility to abide by His Word and we can't do that if we don't ever open the book and strive to learn more of His knowledge. He will help us understand as He feels we need it. Yes, sometimes working for God does require some physical activities too. For example, we as a church go twice a year and serve snacks and gifts to a local nursing home. We this year made up shoeboxes for the Smaritan's Purse to send children all over the world for Christmas. This little box is all they get. We also once a year have a bake sale/car wash/yard sale with proceeds going to benefit different charity projects throughout the year in our area. Then sometimes it's a matter of going to visit and talk with or have prayer with the nursing home patient's or to someone's home in the area that has a loss or needs some help with chores and isn't able. Do you understand what I'm saying by work now? It's in other words not just sitting around doing nothing but benefiting ourself with God's goodness, but helping others to see and feel that goodness too.

I'm sorry you took our posts so negatively. And I know all you new folks haven't been around us long enough to understand what we post. Many times I've been misunderstood only because words on a screen don't do us justice without the facial expressions and body language that we usually can use when speaking in person. Maybe all of us will come to know each other better soon. But if you keep leaving that can't happen can it? :bluesad:

[bluehorizonx10]

What my last post was supposed to show, from the prophets, is that it is not sacrifices or temple services that reach out to G-d but true obedience of His commandments and repentance from the heart, followed by a change in ones ways.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. I agree with keeping the commandments and repentence and changing our ways. That's exactly what I believe to be true.

[butterfly]

*sigh*

I just got upset because I was scared. I always have these worries at the back of my mind and I manage to dismiss them until someone comes out and gives voice to them.

The issue I have is basically that there are some things that I can't believe are wrong, no matter how much the Bible tells me they are. How can I repent for something I don't believe is wrong in the first place, and mean it? I suppose that makes me a non-believer.

I followed the logic from there. If I'm a non-believer, what should I do about my vision? Maybe a psychologist could find an explanation for it. I strongly suspect that I have a deep psychological need for a parent substitute. One that would never let me down the way my mum and dad did. Maybe it was my subconscious doing all the work on that fateful night in September?

But then there's all the other things that happened to me. A mountain of evidence. God exists. And He's targeted me for some reason I just don't know. And I don't know what to do about it. And of course, He's not telling me. Why me and not some other person? That bothers me. Have I been especially good? Hardly.

I meant what I said about the work thing. I want to do it, I'd go to Africa and look after kids with HIV if I wasn't so scared. I only go downstairs to check my mailbox every few days because I'm scared of bumping into one of my neighbours. I sometimes have to spend an hour or so getting myself into the right state of mind to go grocery shopping. I'd love to be able to go out there and do good things, but I'm scared because I don't want to make things worse because of the way I might react to things.

God said to me "You will overcome your fear". He didn't say when. I'm fed up with waiting. And I'm always wondering if I'm just making excuses, if it's just a question of me being weak. I'm the weakest, most cowardly person I know. Being alive is such a huge responsibility, and it paralyses me, because I think about it. But now I've got an even greater responsibility. I've been given more proof of God's existence than the vast majority of people on this earth. I'm already known as an attention seeker, I have less power and more of a guilt complex than most people, I'm horrendously bad at social interaction, what am I supposed to do with this?

I can't cope with having to keep to the letter of the Bible, but keeping to the spirit of the Bible might be doable for me one day. I worry about the conditionality of some of it. I worry about the people who live in the remotest parts of the world and have never heard of Jesus, I worry about people who are so mentally disabled that they can't comprehend the complexities of Christianity. I mean, the Bible is so weirdly written, even for a 17th century translation, that I start reading it and end up wishing I couldn't read. Shakespeare is child's play by comparison.

The reason I'm so sure that the Bible has been corrupted is that my vision fits in far more with what's left of the original version. I don't want to go into that though. I still think it might be better if I left. I'm leaving all the other internet forums I post at except one, because I just can't interact without causing trouble. The one I'm not leaving is the only one I've posted at for a long time without having any trouble.

I met someone from there IRL recently. She said I was one of the very few born again Christians she'd met who came across as being a nice person. So at least I have that to hold onto.

[oldernow]

Butterfly you are not causing trouble.
But I do think that you desperately need some kind of counceling. Needing help is not a bad thing and I believe you need someone to help you to understand the issues you are having. Helping other people will do no good unless you are able to help yourself. Again there is nothing wrong with getting help. You need support for what you are going through. I'm very concerned about you and I hope that everything will work out.
There is nothing you can say or do to make us hate you. We are all brothers and sisters and we do not want to see you fall.

[butterfly]

Thank you oldernow, I just wish it were easy to get help without any money to pay for it.

I suppose all I can do for now is pray.

[bluehorizonx10]

Butterfly, Those same issues you speak of have been in my mind much in the last year. I've struggled myself with the do's or don'ts. But I finally after months of prayer back and forth decided that God will take care of it all. He's there for us, we don't have to take the weight of the world on ourself because Jesus did that for us. We don't have to do the judging because that's God's deal.

Right now the way I see it from here is you just need to take care of yourself. Others will come in time. Continue with the therapy you're getting and get better. Love yourself again. You don't need desperately to have a Mom or Dad figure because you've got the best now...........Jesus Himself. When the world gets too heavy to carry, lay it down and let Jesus carry you just like the "Footprints" prayer tells us. He's always there to take care of anything we need and that's worries too. Don't bother yourself about what others think so much, but about what you need to do to get back out again to interact with people.

And one major point.........my pastor used to tell us when all else you can do fails, wait on God. Sometimes it's not going to happen overnight. When God feels it's time it will happen. Until then keep your faith strong, pray everyday, and read your Bible along with the phsyical help you need. In time you'll see the changes. In our sermon yesterday my pastor said salvation will only come when we are empty. Then, expect a miracle. That's when they come. I loved that vision.

And like I said before, read the Bible and open your heart. God will open it as He feels you need it. Don't try to read it understanding every word. I've read it through many times in my life and everytime I read a chapter now, I see more each time. God reveals His meaning as we need it and all won't be reavealed until we reach Heaven for any of us, no matter how long or how deeply we are Christian and read.

[Allie Lowell]

At the end of the day as long as you have a good, kind heart and respect people who deserve respect (cos let's face it, there are cold black evil hearts in this world who do not deserve the right to breathe the same air), it doesn't matter who or what you worship. I have my own ethic's and morals and tend to follow my heart more than my head, cos I'm not very bright up there. I have very low self esteem which is why I idolise people like Jane Curtin (in a non obsessive and non lesbian way). I do believe that part of the reason I am like I am was beacuse of my upbringing, which while it did give me something good, like not smoking, it did stunt me socially and I find it hard to communicate and interact with people in my everyday life and I tend to be quite a solitary person.

I think if my family had been more interactive, more touchy feely, more aware and communicative, I may have turned out different, although I would still have maintained a passive and introverted nature. But I don't need and will never need any God to guide my life. I prefer to be guided by those I feel close to. Living, breathing people who you can actually talk to. I'm still searching for my soulmate and when I find him or her I may find a lasting happiness and finally feel good about who I am.

[butterfly]

I agree with a lot (but obviously not all) of what you said Allie. Especially this bit.

Originally posted by Allie Lowell
I do believe that part of the reason I am like I am was beacuse of my upbringing, which while it did give me something good, like not smoking, it did stunt me socially and I find it hard to communicate and interact with people in my everyday life and I tend to be quite a solitary person.

I think if my family had been more interactive, more touchy feely, more aware and communicative, I may have turned out different, although I would still have maintained a passive and introverted nature.

I could have written that about me, if I was more eloquent!

Gail, thanks. I'm not getting therapy yet though, I don't know how long it'll take to arrange. I'm going to start reading the Bible every day, but I still don't see how I can ever believe in the Creation story as being literally true. One other thing I've never understood is how Adam and Eve had grandchildren without incest being involved at any point.

I think how I'm feeling right now can be best summed up by a post I made at the TS support forum I post at;

"I'm falling apart.

I think it's always been in the back of my mind with regard to my body hair removal problems, but the bra thing has really brought it to prominence in my thoughts. Added to that, Lauren's disappearance has put a different perspective on things.

I'm thinking of calling a halt to all this and going back to living as a man. Well, I say living, existing would be a better word. Because I'm just not up to living. I have to recognise my limitations. I tried to go grocery shopping today. I didn't notice the buy one get one free offer on the kitchen rolls I was trying to buy. I don't even need two, let alone four. The resulting altercation with the checkout person led to me walking out with nothing at all.

The thing is, I don't just need a partner, I need a carer. And if Lauren's gone, I need to find someone else.

Tips on pulling birds #1. Be male. It's easily overlooked, but 9 out of 10 women prefer their partner to be male.

I know I'm going to get a lot of stick for this, but I've decided that if I can't get anyone to accompany me to see RR on 26th February, I'm jacking it in. So far I've only got Lara as a maybe. Oh and btw, if anyone can get me an unused can of fly spray, I'll give them £20 for it. A plague of flies in January. Why?"

This morning I was talking to myself about the way I'm so hard on myself. In the vision I had, God showed me the damage I do to myself and I said I wouldn't do it anymore, yet I still do, because it's so hard to treat Vicky as I would if she was another person because I am her.

We had a good cry this morning, and gave ourself a hug, and promised ourself that we would look after ourself from now on. If I can only help myself by thinking of Vicky as my best friend, rather than thinking of her as myself, then that's the way I have to think.

We've got a lot of issues to face right now, and we need to face them together, instead of being at our throat all the time, we need to have faith in ourself, and our friends, as well as in God.

[Earl Purple]

Allie,

The 7 Noahide laws are a bit like that - they are sensible laws that everybody in the world should keep.

You are perfectly permitted to eat pork - only Jews are forbidden from eating pork. But the pig must be killed in a humane way, that is, it cannot be cut up until it is dead. Some say that you must also drain out all the blood, just like we do (depends how the verse is interpreted).