Giambi brothers comes clean... Used steroids

[db44]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1936592

Jason Giambi admitted to a federal grand jury he took steroids and human growth hormone in 2003, according to transcripts of testimony obtained by the San Francisco Chronicle and published in the newspaper's Thursday editions.


The New York Yankees slugger's admission in December 2003 contradicts denials he has made since then that he never took performance-enhancing drugs.


But in the testimony obtained by the Chronicle, the former American League MVP told the grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroids case he used steroids obtained from Greg Anderson, the personal trainer for San Francisco Giants star Barry Bonds.

Giambi did not implicate Bonds in his testimony; he pointed out that Anderson was secretive about who he was working for and what he was doing to help other professional athletes.


In the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Assistant U.S. Attorney Jeffrey Nedrow asked Giambi, "Did [Anderson] ever say, 'Don't be talking about getting stuff from me?' "


"That's what I mean by saying that he made it so, you know, private, that you know, 'Hey, don't say anything, don't talk about anything,' " Giambi told the grand jury. "You know, I assumed because he's Barry's trainer -- you know, Barry -- but he never said one time, 'This is what Barry's taking, this is what Barry's doing.' He never gave up another name that he was dealing with or doing anything with."


Bonds, a seven-time National League MVP, has denied using steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs.


Giambi's younger brother Jeremy, a former Oakland outfielder, also told the grand jury he injected banned drugs received from Anderson, the Chronicle reported.


Both Giambis said they had used steroids even earlier in their baseball careers. They were granted immunity from prosecution if they told the truth to the grand jury, but faced perjury charges if they did not.


Jason Giambi described to the grand jury how -- using syringes -- he injected human growth hormone into his stomach and testosterone into his buttocks.


Giambi called the products he obtained from Anderson "undetectable" steroids known as "the clear" and "the cream."


"The clear" is a liquid drug administered under the tongue a few drops at a time. "The cream" was described as a testosterone-based balm rubbed onto the body, the Chronicle reported.


Giambi said he obtained all the drugs -- and syringes -- except human growth hormone from Anderson. Giambi said he got the human growth hormone at a Gold's Gym in Las Vegas.


Giambi testified Anderson sent him several different drugs, including testosterone, "the cream" and "the clear." Giambi added Anderson gave him advice on the use of human growth hormone.


"Did Mr. Anderson provide you with actual injectable testosterone?" Assistant U.S. Attorney Nedrow asked Giambi.


"Yes," replied Giambi.


Then, in reference to an alleged steroid calendar from January 2003, Nedrow asked, "OK. And this injectable T, or testosterone, is basically a steroid, correct?"


"Yes," Giambi replied


"And did he talk to you about the fact it was a steroid at the time?" Nedrow asked.


"Yeah, I mean, I -- I don't know if we got into a conversation about it, but we both knew about it, yes," Giambi told the grand jury.


Giambi said Anderson described "the cream" and "the clear" as "an alternative to steroids, but it doesn't show on a steroid test.


"And he started talking about that it would raise your testosterone levels, you know, which would basically make it a steroid ... or maybe he said it's an alternative of taking an injectable steroid. That might be a better way to put it."


Bonds brought Anderson on a barnstorming players' tour of Japan after the big-league season in 2002. Giambi said it was on that November trip he met the trainer.


In his testimony, Giambi said he asked Anderson about the things Bonds was doing to stay at an elite level.


"So I started to ask him: 'Hey, what are the things you're doing with Barry? He's an incredible player. I want to still be able to work out at that age and keep playing,' " Giambi testified. "And that's how the conversation first started."


According to the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Giambi testified he called Anderson after their return from overseas and then flew to the San Francisco area in either late November or early December to meet at a gym down the street from BALCO in Burlingame, Calif.


Giambi said the two went to a hospital for Giambi to provide blood and urine samples, which were then taken to BALCO.


According to the transcripts obtained by the Chronicle, Giambi said he and Anderson then began discussing various performance-enhancing drugs Anderson could supply. Also, when Anderson received the results of Giambi's blood and urine tests, Anderson told him he had tested positive for Deca-Durobolin -- a steroid Giambi said he had obtained from the Las Vegas gym -- and that he should discontinue its use because it could stay in his system a long time.


Giambi said Anderson assured him the drugs he provided in baseball's offseason would be out of his system before Giambi was called for a steroid test.


Giambi, a four-time All-Star who played his first seven seasons in Oakland, has been unable to duplicate his 2000 MVP success in three seasons with the Yankees. Giambi signed a seven-year, $120 million contract with the Yankees after the 2001 season.


He played with a knee injury in 2003 and missed more than half the 2004 season with an intestinal parasite and a benign tumor that reportedly was on his pituitary gland. The unusual ailments led many to question whether they were steroid related, but Giambi continued to deny ever taking steroids.


The Chronicle also reported Giambi testified he helped his younger brother obtain drugs from Anderson.


Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury Anderson described "the clear" and "the cream" as undetectable "alternatives to steroids."


"For all I knew, it could have been baby lotion," Jeremy Giambi told the grand jury.

-----

Hey Barry, how ya feeling?

[db44]

My guess is that his health issues are becoming more obviously linked to the steroids. :\

[Venisenvy]

Im wondering how MLB will deal with this, my hope is that it results to a lifetime ban for both.

[db44]

He had lied to the public after this testimony, saying he hadn't used the stuff. Makes you wonder who has said what and how the Chronicle got its hands on these documents.

[stephj24]

A lifetime ban is too harsh. Ban them and all others who have used the substances, for 10 years which would be well after their careers are over.

Not like Jason Giambi using them isn't a surprise to the majority of Yankees fans. And to think he blamed the Japanese for his health problems, how low can you get. I never liked him when the Yanks got him in the beginning and I certainly don't like him now. George and company will find a way that this violates his contract and they'll finally be able to get rid of him like they've been wanting to for months now.

[Venisenvy]

If Pete Rose got a lifetime ban then these players who are hurting the game a lot more than pete rose ever did with gambling deserve a lifetime ban.

[db44]

The lifetime ban then was for hurting the reputation of baseball. I think this is more of personal matter... Except for the Olympics, where have players been banned for using steroids before? In some sports somet things are still legal if I am not mistaken.

Personally, I think Cap Anson and Ty Cobb and Judge Landis hurt baseball more than the Black Sox or Rose and certainly more than Giambi. Yet all those racists (one who was known to have assaulted blacks while playing ball) are all HoFers.

I presume Luis that you are also for the bannishment of Bonds then, as Giambi's testimony, while not 100% an admission of Bond's guilt, points pretty heavily towards his being a known substance user.

I don't know what I think a good punishment is. As somebody who wanted Tino to stay with the Yankees and still maintains Mo Vaughn would have been a better fit than Giambi (Mo would have come to Yankee camp in shape, and Torre wouldn't have hung Mo out to dry like Valentine did when Vaughn was trying to rally the team), I would love to see Giambi get banned and kicked off the team if not out of baseball. However baseball has set a precident to do much less than that. Coridzone shots and the likes in the 60's, drunks and drug users who get five reprieses... Not to mention a Players Union which is unjustifiably strong, there's no way that such lengthy bans will be put in place, if any ban is put in at all.

[*rockstar54*]

I still don't think that Bonds used steroids. While the article posted hints that Bonds used them, the Chronicle article doesn't. The Chron article is actually really interesting; a lot more in depth and better written than the ESPN one. One of the steroids Giambi took was a female fertility drug, and that drug has been connected with tumors in the pituitary gland, like Giambi's.
Here's the Chron's story: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/02/MNG80A523H1.DTL

[stephj24]

The lifetime ban then was for hurting the reputation of baseball. I think this is more of personal matter... Except for the Olympics, where have players been banned for using steroids before? In some sports somet things are still legal if I am not mistaken.

Personally, I think Cap Anson and Ty Cobb and Judge Landis hurt baseball more than the Black Sox or Rose and certainly more than Giambi. Yet all those racists (one who was known to have assaulted blacks while playing ball) are all HoFers.

I presume Luis that you are also for the bannishment of Bonds then, as Giambi's testimony, while not 100% an admission of Bond's guilt, points pretty heavily towards his being a known substance user.

I don't know what I think a good punishment is. As somebody who wanted Tino to stay with the Yankees and still maintains Mo Vaughn would have been a better fit than Giambi (Mo would have come to Yankee camp in shape, and Torre wouldn't have hung Mo out to dry like Valentine did when Vaughn was trying to rally the team), I would love to see Giambi get banned and kicked off the team if not out of baseball. However baseball has set a precident to do much less than that. Coridzone shots and the likes in the 60's, drunks and drug users who get five reprieses... Not to mention a Players Union which is unjustifiably strong, there's no way that such lengthy bans will be put in place, if any ban is put in at all.

Dave, I couldn't agree with you more. There are far other worse people that probably should have received a lifetime ban, didn't, and are now in the hall of fame. Go figure. I'm also one who doesn't agree with the lifetime ban of Pete Rose. In my opinion, he's done his time, lift the ban already.

And you know the Yanks are going to figure a way out of this. It's no secret that the majority of individuals in the Yankee organization haven't been happy with the way Giambi has performed since they signed him (or as in the case of this season hasn't even played at all). I've heard alot of rumors, some which have gotten pretty hot lately, that the Yankees are hotly pursuing Tino to play first again for the Bronx Bombers. Tino was my favorite player back in the day (I even wore #24 when I played high school varsity softball because I loved him so much...lol) and I'd love to see him back in pinstripes. I hope that happens and it seems like more then a remote possibility.

I say give them a ten year ban, their careers will be over by then, and fine them a huge amount of money that would actually hurt them. I'm not talking about 200,000 or anything like that, since it won't hurt them in the pocket. I'm talking millions. That's the best thing that can be done in this situation.

And Bonds-I've always said his HR record should have come with an asterisk next to it. No way he broke the record by "natural" means.

[*rockstar54*]

In his 20/20 interview scheduled to air tomorrow, Victor Conte said that he never gave steroids to Barry Bonds. He did admit to providing several other athletes and Greg Anderson with the illegal substances.

[*rockstar54*]

Wow....this isn't good news. This story broke on the local news just about 20 mins after they reported the info about Conte I posted above. I believe Barry though, that he did not know that he was taking steroids. And I still believe that he would be at the top of the game if he hadn't received the substances.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/12/03/BALCO.TMP
BONDS' TESTIMONY
Giants star told grand jury he used clear substance, cream provided by trainer Greg Anderson, but believed they were flaxseed oil and arthritis balm
Lance Williams and Mark Fainaru-Wada, Chronicle Staff Writers
Friday, December 3, 2004

Barry Bonds told a federal grand jury that he used a clear substance and a cream supplied by the Burlingame laboratory now enmeshed in a sports doping scandal, but he said he never thought they were steroids, The Chronicle has learned.

Federal prosecutors charge that the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative, known as BALCO, distributed undetectable steroids to elite athletes in the form of a clear substance that was taken orally and a cream that was rubbed onto the body.

Bonds testified that he received and used clear and cream substances from his personal strength trainer, Greg Anderson, during the 2003 baseball season but was told they were the nutritional supplement flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis, according to a transcript of his testimony reviewed by The Chronicle.

Federal prosecutors confronted Bonds during his testimony on Dec. 4, 2003, with documents indicating he had used steroids and human growth hormone during a three-year assault on baseball's home run record, but the Giants star denied the allegations.

During the three-hour proceeding, two prosecutors presented Bonds with documents that allegedly detailed his use of a long list of drugs: human growth hormone, Depo-Testosterone, undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," insulin and Clomid, a drug for female infertility sometimes used to enhance the effect of testosterone.

The documents, many with Bonds' name on them, are dated from 2001 through 2003. They include a laboratory test result that could reflect steroid use and what appeared to be schedules of drug use with billing information, prosecutors told the grand jury.

In a September 2003 raid on Anderson's Burlingame home, federal investigators seized documents they said showed Bonds was using banned drugs, according to court records. Anderson was indicted in February on charges of money laundering and conspiracy to distribute steroids in the BALCO case.

Bonds' attorney, Michael Rains, said he was upset, though not entirely surprised, his client's secret testimony had been revealed. He said he had no proof but suspected the government was the source of the leak, insisting it had been out to get Bonds from the beginning.

"My view has always been this case has been the U.S. vs. Bonds, and I think the government has moved in certain ways in a concerted effort to indict my client," Rains said. "And I think their failure to indict him has resulted in their attempts to smear him publicly."

Attorney Anna Ling, who along with J. Tony Serra represents Anderson, said a court order precluded her from commenting on grand jury testimony.

"But it's been our position from day one that Mr. Anderson did not knowingly do anything illegal," Ling said. "If he had, he wouldn't have ever been involved. He did not knowingly provide any illegal substances to anyone."

According to the transcript, two prosecutors queried Bonds closely about the documents, at times going over them line by line while peppering him with questions.

But Bonds said he had no knowledge of the doping calendars and other records that indicated he had used banned drugs. He said he had never paid Anderson for steroids and had never knowingly used them.

And he said he was confident that his trainer hadn't slipped him banned drugs without his knowledge, saying Anderson "wouldn't jeopardize our friendship" by doing that.

"Greg and I are friends," Bonds told the grand jury. "I never paid Greg for anything. ... You're going to bring up documents and more documents. I have never seen anything written by Greg Anderson on a piece of paper."

Bonds testified he had never discussed steroids with his trainer -- not even after federal agents kicked in Anderson's door to serve their search warrant. That was out of respect for Anderson's privacy, Bonds said.

To the prosecutors, the substances Bonds said he was using sounded like "the cream" and "the clear," two steroids designed to be undetectable in laboratory testing that Victor Conte, founder of BALCO, is accused of marketing to elite athletes, sometimes with Anderson as middleman.

Bonds said that as far as he knew, Anderson gave him only legal products to treat the arthritis and fatigue that afflicted him, especially when playing a day game after a night game. The trainer brought the products into the Giants' clubhouse at Pac Bell Park "once a homestand," Bonds said, and that's where he used them.

"I never asked Greg" about what the products contained, Bonds testified. "When he said it was flaxseed oil, I just said, 'Whatever.'

"It was in the ballpark ... in front of everybody. I mean, all the reporters, my teammates. I mean, they all saw it. I didn't hide it."

The transcript shows that before he testified, Bonds was told he would not be prosecuted for any crimes he admitted as long as he told the truth to the grand jury. But if he lied under oath, the prosecutors warned, he could face prosecution for perjury. It is illegal to obtain steroids and human growth hormone without a doctor's prescription.

Faced with the same warning and similar evidence, five other baseball players who were summoned to San Francisco to testify last year confessed to the grand jury that they had used performance-enhancing drugs provided by Anderson.

One week after Bonds testified, New York Yankees first baseman Jason Giambi and his brother Jeremy, both former Oakland A's, described in detail how they had injected themselves with performance-enhancing drugs. The Giambis testified they were drawn to Anderson because of Bonds' success.

[*rockstar54*]

article continued...

Other players who admitted their use of performance-enhancing drugs were former Giants Armando Rios, Benito Santiago and Bobby Estalella. The players said they came to know Anderson because he was Bonds' trainer.

A sixth witness, Yankees outfielder Gary Sheffield, testified that while he trained with Bonds in the Bay Area before the 2002 baseball season, Bonds arranged for him to receive "the cream," "the clear" and "red beans," which the prosecutors identified as steroid pills manufactured in Mexico.

Sheffield said he was never told that the substances were steroids. Bonds also was using "the cream" and "the clear," Sheffield said.

"Nothing was between me and Greg. Barry pretty much controlled everything," Sheffield testified. "... It was basically Barry (saying), 'Trust me, do what I do.'

"... I know I've seen Greg give Barry the same thing I was taking. I didn't see him taking those red beans, but I seen him taking this (clear) and this cream here."

Attorneys for Sheffield and Santiago expressed dismay that the secrecy of the grand jury had been violated.

Santiago's lawyer, David Cornwell, also said, "If any performance-enhancing drugs were ingested, they were ingested unknowingly."

Rios' attorney, Chris Cannon, dismissed the report as "ancient history."

Estalella could not be reached for comment.

Since the BALCO scandal erupted, Bonds has insisted he never used banned drugs. But in statements they later denied making, both Conte and BALCO Vice President James Valente, also indicted, told investigators that Anderson was supplying steroids to Bonds, court records show.

In addition, The Chronicle has reported that in a secretly recorded conversation, Anderson said Bonds had used an "undetectable" performance-enhancing drug during the 2003 season.

Bonds hit 73 home runs in 2001, breaking one of baseball's most storied records. He hit his 703rd home run this past season and is expected to pass Babe Ruth's mark of 714 next year, then zero in on Hank Aaron's all-time record of 755 in 2006. Last month, at age 40, Bonds won his fourth consecutive National League Most Valuable Player award and the seventh of his career, more than any other player.

Anderson has been Bonds' trainer throughout his assault on the home run record. In a ceremony at Pac Bell Park in 2001 after he broke Mark McGwire's record for home runs in a season, Bonds publicly thanked Anderson for his help.

In his grand jury testimony, Bonds described Anderson as a boyhood friend with whom he reconnected in 1998, when Anderson was working as a personal trainer on the Peninsula.

"Greg is a weightlifting trainer," Bonds said. "And we're friends, grew up together. (I) go over there and see what he does, I liked his philosophy, and we started working out together."

Soon, Bonds said, he decided to bring on Anderson to replace Raymond Farris, who at the time was supervising his workouts.

"I was getting rugged with my other trainer, you know, doing the same thing over and over," Bonds said. "... My other trainer was like, you do three sets of legs, three sets of this, three -- you know.

"And Greg is more -- 16 sets of chest, more biceps, to really maximize and expand your muscle. And I liked that philosophy."

The ballplayer and the trainer began working out at a gym near BALCO, Bonds said. He said Anderson also began providing him with "vitamin and protein shakes."

In 2000 or 2001, Bonds said, Anderson persuaded him to undergo blood and urine testing at BALCO as part of a program touted by Conte to market his legal nutritional supplement, ZMA. Bonds said he already was interested in nutrition issues, testifying that he employed both a cook and a "nutritionist at Stanford."

Anderson "wanted to do a blood test to try to regulate your levels, if you're lacking in zinc or magnesium," Bonds said. "... The blood test at BALCO was just the thing to figure out what you're deficient in. ... I just thought it was a neat idea."

Bonds said he had his personal doctor come to his house and draw the blood for the testing.

Eventually, he said, Anderson began providing him with an array of supplements: "multivitamin to vitamin E to omega 3s to, you know, ZMA - the ZMA that BALCO had - to liver pills to oxygen ...

"But I had no doubt what he was giving me, because we were friends."

Bonds said he met Conte, BALCO's president, two or three times but never paid for the nutritional supplements.

Instead, he said he "did an ad" for BALCO in a muscle magazine, a reference to a photo shoot and feature in Muscle & Fitness that quoted Bonds effusively endorsing Conte's ZMA nutritional supplement product.

Bonds said he began using the cream and the clear substance at a time when he was aching with arthritis and was distraught over the terminal illness of his father, former Giants All-Star Bobby Bonds, who died Aug. 23, 2003.

"I have bad arthritis, I've played 18 years, bad knees, surgeries and so on," Bonds testified, adding that he wanted a product that would "take the arthritis pain away that I feel in the mornings when it's super cold ...

"I was battling with the problems with my father and the -- just the lack of sleep, lack of everything."

But Bonds said he got little help from Anderson's products.

"And I was like, to me, it didn't even work," he told the grand jury. "You know me, I'm 39 years old. I'm dealing with pain. All I want is the pain relief, you know? And you know, to recover, you know, night games to day games. That's it.

"And I didn't think the stuff worked. I was like, 'Dude, whatever,' but he's my friend."

Eventually, Bonds said he stopped using the products, telling the grand jury, "If it's a steroid, it's not working." Bonds insisted he never paid Anderson for drugs or supplements, but acknowledged paying him $15,000 in 2003 for weight training.

"I paid him in cash," Bonds said. "I make $17 million."

In answers that sometimes rambled, Bonds sought to vouch for his trainer as a good and honest person who would never traffic in illegal drugs.

"Greg is a good guy, you know this kid is a great kid. He has a child," Bonds said. At another point, he told the grand jury:

"Greg has nothing, man. ... Guy lives in his car half the time, he lives with his girlfriend, rents a room so he can be with his kid, you know?

"... This is the same guy that goes over to our friend's mom's house and massages her leg because she has cancer and she swells up every night for months. Spends time next to my dad, rubbing his feet every night."

Bonds told the grand jurors that he gave Anderson a $20,000 bonus and bought him a ring after the 73-home run season. He also bought the trainer a ring to commemorate the Giants' 2002 World Series appearance. When a juror asked why the wealthy ballplayer didn't buy "a mansion" for his trainer to live in, Bonds answered:

"One, I'm black, and I'm keeping my money. And there's not too many rich black people in this world. There's more wealthy Asian people and Caucasian and white. And I ain't giving my money up."

Prosecutor Jeff Nedrow pressed Bonds about the clear liquid Anderson provided.

"Did he ever tell you it was a molecularly or chemically altered steroid? Did Greg ever tell you anything like that?"

"No, because my other trainer, who is 50 years old, Harvey, was taking the same stuff," Bonds replied. "And he said it's flaxseed oil."

Tim Montgomery, a world-class sprinter, had earlier told the grand jury that Conte used flaxseed oil containers when sending "the clear" to athletes at overseas track meets.

For much of Bonds' testimony, Nedrow and Assistant U.S. Attorney Ross Nadel methodically questioned him about documents and evidence seized in the probe. Bonds said he had few insights.

The prosecutors queried Bonds about calendars -- taken in a raid on Anderson's home -- that contained his name and notes about performance-enhancing drugs. He replied, "I've never had a calendar with him, never had anything."

Bonds said he couldn't explain a calendar page with the name "Barry" on it, nor a note indicating an invoice of $450 for blood tests.

Likewise, Bonds said he couldn't translate a document that had the notation "! G !" along with "one box off season" and "two box season, $1,500."

The prosecutors thought it referred to Bonds' payments for boxes of human growth hormone, but Bonds said, "I don't know what G is."

Asked about a reference to a $450 payment for a bottle of the injectable steroid Depo-Testosterone, Bonds replied, "I have never seen this bottle or any bottle pertaining that says Depo-Testosterone." He also denied ever injecting himself with any drug.

Other documents suggested Bonds was using Clomid, the fertility drug that enhances the effect of testosterone; modafinil, an anti-narcolepsy drug used as a stimulant; and the steroid trenbolone.

"I've never heard of it," Bonds replied to questions about each drug.

Asked about the endurance-boosting agent known as EPO, Bonds said, "I couldn't even pronounce it."

Queried about insulin, which also can have a steroid-like effect, Bonds said, "Insulin? I'm not a diabetic."

Bonds also was quizzed about a document that said, "Barry 12-2-02, T, 1 cc G - pee."

A prosecutor asked, "Does that correspond to you getting, you know, growth hormones or testosterone or giving a urine test or anything of those things that you can recall from Mr. Anderson."

"T could mean anything," Bonds replied. "G could mean anything. And pee could probably mean anything."

Bonds said he had no knowledge of paperwork indicating that starting in 2001, BALCO had been screening his blood not just for nutritional deficiencies but for steroids.

"Do you know why BALCO would have been testing for your testosterone level?" he was asked.

"I have no idea," Bonds replied.

"Do you know why your testosterone level would have been -- according to the report -- higher than the level, the normal range indicated for males 29 to 49 years old?"

"I don't understand this piece of paper," Bonds replied.

Elevated testosterone levels can indicate steroid use, according to medical experts.

Rains, Bonds' attorney, said every other athlete called to testify in the case had been provided the opportunity to study the documents beforehand to assist the government in making its case; but Rains said the prosecutors backed out on a similar deal with Bonds.

"That shows you what the government's attempt was and what their effort was," Rains said. "But it didn't work. One, because Barry testified truthfully, and they know it. And two, because the documents they showed him are so fraught with irregularities of unproven quality and character, that they can't be used to secure an indictment (for perjury)."

Bonds said he didn't tell the Giants staff what he was doing with Anderson because he didn't trust them.

"No way ... we don't trust the ball team," Bonds said. "We don't trust baseball. ... Believe me, it's a business. I don't trust their doctors or nothing."

That lack of trust also led Bonds to ask Anderson to have him tested for steroids in 2003. Major League Baseball had just begun testing players for steroids, and Bonds said he was suspicious about it.

"We got tested two times this season unannounced," Bonds said. "I don't trust baseball. They say it's anonymous, but then they put your name on it. So I don't trust baseball. So I asked Greg ... 'I want to know what baseball's doing behind our backs.'

"I never saw the papers, never saw the results. Greg just said, 'You're negative.' "

At times, Bonds bantered with prosecutors and grand jurors.

Early on, a prosecutor asked whether Bonds had been confused by an explanation of how the hearing would be conducted.

"Yes -- you are confusing," Bonds said. Turning to the grand jurors, the outfielder said, "Is he confusing to you guys? I'm glad it's not me."

At other times, Bonds provided answers that weren't necessarily responsive to questions, but that still contained personal insights about baseball's single-season home run king.

Asked whether he had ever discussed the BALCO probe with Anderson, Bonds said, "The only thing I asked Greg, 'What's it like getting your door blown down. Dude, I never seen anything like that except on TV.' That's about as far as we went on it."

Then, in anattempt to explain why he wasn't more inquisitive, Bonds said he learned privacy concerns growing up as the son of a Giants All-Star.

"I was a celebrity child ... with a famous father. I just don't get into other people's business because of my father's situation, see."

Asked to name his greatest achievement, Bonds seemed to surprise a prosecutor expecting him to name the home run record.

The greatest achievement, Bonds said, was "when I was drafted in 1985" to play professional baseball. "There's no better achievement than fulfilling your goal."

[db44]

Not buying into Bonds' saying he didn't know... He too wasn't forthcoming at spring training, and he was both smug and defensive on the stand.

[Venisenvy]

This hurts baseball. How can they keep their fans if the players are not playing fair. One violation is all it should take to ban them for life. It is very severe but thats what its going to take.

[db44]

If that's how fans feel. then it's a wonder they watch any sport. Whether it's steroids or cheap hits or being on the take, I don't think any team is clean of some sort of cheating influence.

King Kelly was a star in the 1800's in part because he was a cheater. People came to watch him to see what he would do! In a time when there wasn't an umpire for every base, Kelly was legendary for skipping second base to get to third... And' we're not talking about something like the neighborhood play... We're talking about running straight across the diamond from first. There's another Hall of Famer.

Kelly once stole second... From third! He had noplace he could go to steal (or raise his stats) so he decided to steal the base had previously been on.

John McGraw tried on at least one occasion to play a Black man, only claiming he was a Native American. When too many of Charlie "Takohoma's" friends showed up at the park, the player was immediately shown the door. Christy Matthewson might've learned his fade away pitch from Rube Foster; Perhaps the strongest driving force of the original incarnation of the Negro Leagues. This was also at John McGraw's insistance.

I haven't seen Paul Hamm give up his medal yet from this year's Olympics. For that matter, I believe he's on tour, despite questions of the legitamacy of his medal. The same may be said of Apollo Anton's gold when they stripped the South Korean of the medal due to a foul most people in the world seemed to think was not a violation of the rules. Yet here he was made out to be a hero. Yeah,

Mike Tyson is still a good draw in boxing. To some extent, so is Tonya Harding.

Diego Maradonna is still beloved throughout the world. There's a steroid user who some would still pay to see after his guilt was proven.

Yes, we support our impure athletes, sometimes because they are cheats.

[db44]

After re-reading Bonds' piece, a few questions pop out which make me go "hmmm" even moe:

Would Bonds pay cash for a car?

When he says the stuff wasn't working, did he happen to look in a mirror and see how much bigger he was starting in the years in question than he had been when he was younger?

If all this stuff wasn't working, then why the huge payoffs and gifts?

On the other hand, you look at his batting stats and it looks like a natural progression except for the fluke year of '01. He starts off a light HR hitter, but does pick up the pace. Except for that one year, and he always seems to be a 40 HR hitter, when you factor in how many games he played per year. 2001 of course was ridiculous. Nothing points to a huge gain of offensive numbers except for that one year.

[*rockstar54*]

I believe that Bonds didn't know that what he was taking were steroids. He is not very bright. I mean, at some ceremony after he surpassed a record or something he was like "I'd like to thank my parents for having me..."
Also, why would Bonds publicly endorse BALCO if he was aware that they were giving him steroids?? And he was also doing a new workout regimen with Anderson, not just the supplements, so that would be a reason for him gaining muscle mass or whatever.

[db44]

Thanking parents like that is something they all do.

On the other hand, my station had Ray Ratto on yesterday and the conversation went on about how here you have a guy who has always been very consciencious of his body and has always tested himself for zinc and stuff. He also has always questioned anything anyone wanted to do to/with him. The idea that he would just allow somebody to give him stuff doesn't fit his usual profile.

[*rockstar54*]

Other players thank their parents, but do they really thank their parents for having them?? Not just from that comment, but we all know that Barry is not the most intelligent guy on the planet by far.
Ratto brought up good points, but I think that Barry really trusted Greg Anderson. He's called him his best friend. Anderson told him that it was that oil and an arthritis cream. And you know, maybe Barry had some idea that there were some shady dealings going on at BALCO but he really didn't want to know so he was purposely ignorant.
I really think that Bonds' public endorsement of BALCO leans towards his innocence a lot. Tom Tolbert on KNBR was talking about that, and how Barry has such a big image that if he knew BALCO were connected to steroids he probably wouldn't want to publicly connect his name to it. Going back to your example of underage drinking in the other thread, I don't go around spouting out the kinds of alcohol I like because I don't want authoritative figures to connect me to it. I think that if he knew BALCO were distributing steroids he'd want to disconnect his name with it publicly.

[*rockstar54*]

Also, I just remembered that in Ratto's Fri column he wrote that if Bonds had committed perjury, it would cancel out his cancel out his immunity in exchange for testifying. I'd think that that would be a big incentive to tell the truth.

[db44]

And Bush heavily endorsed the intelligence about Iraq. How'd that go?