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View Full Version : older artists: Overrated, underrated or just-right-rated?


db44
Dec 7th, 2004, 01:58 AM
The latest appearance of Oxymoron got me thinking about this. What bands from the past do you think are overrated, which ones are underrated, and who do you think is pinned just right? I'm aiming mostly at the '50s-'70s here.

This is in the grand scheme of life, not just this board (*cough* Bekah *cough*).

Feel free to give explanations where you want to.

Underrated:

Brian Wilson/Beach Boys: Like y'all didn't see that coming. ;) Hugely loved and respected for radio people I've known and worked with, yet publicly not often accepted as huge influences in modern music.

The Mamas and the Papas: The male and female voices combine so well in a way many all-male or all-female bands of the California sound couldn't. Their voices and yet full instrumentals work so well together. Cass Elliott could belt 'em out.

Chuck Berry: If we're gonna put Elvis on such a high pedistal (more on that later), then Berry should be there. He was Elvis before Elvis and for a lot longer. Unfortunately skin color made it so he couldn't be accepted as "The King."

Traffic: Full sound, Steve Winwood's last band project. Some absolutely great albums that many might never have heard of, including their self-titled album and John Barleycorn Must Die. "The Low Spark of High-Heeled Boys" is one of the best long songs IMHO.

Steve Miller Band: They are known for their later stuff, their Greatest Hits 1974-1978 album, but that is nothing compared to the material their original Best of Album focuses on. Before there was "Fly Like an Eagle" they used the famous guitar intro for "My Dark Hour," which I think blows Eagle out of the water. I envision using "Seasons" as a lullabye when I'm a dad. Psychadelic stuff at times which you wouldn't think of if you looked at the popular GH album.

Donovan: As we touched on in the Abbey Road thread, his music was up there and out there. Much less of an evil edge and more mellow than the music of the Doors. "Seasons of the Witch" is one of my all-time favorites.

The Who: Many think of them for their destructive stage-shows, but their music is so awesome whether hard edge or soft, nailing society or showing off Entwhistle's sick humor.

Dion: Bronx represent! ;) From the early teenage stuff to "Abraham, Martin and John" to moderate success in the late 80's, he's been through it all and he's covered many different aspects of music.

Overrated:

disclaimer: The bands and artists here I consider overrated, but that doesn't mean in many cases that I dislike them. It just means that I think their social popularity is greater than their talents warrant.

First off, as Sinister suggested, Barry Manilow? There are a few artists like that which people have to explain their meaning in life to me. Carly Simon fits in there. Wayne Newton. Rod Stewart and Steely Dan too, although they both have their moments.

The Doors: See clean up Beatles tribute thread.

Elvis: As stated above, he exploited the likes of Chuck Berry the way people of color couldn't. I can hear the greatness of "Johnny B. Goode" but I don't hear the greatness of a number of Elvis' hits. He was the Cisco of his time, taking a sexual undertone (The hips. "Elvis' Pelvis") and some musical talent turning it into a great show.

Joe Cocker: I sheepishly admit I like his version of "With a Little Help From My Friends" better than the original... One of the few times I'd admit to liking a cover better. But has the guy ever done anything on his own and with his own music?

Meatloaf: He don't do that for me.

The Carpenters: Some great songs, I admit, and I do like them. But I get the sense that if Karen had lived, they wouldn't have ever made the plateau people put them on. That may also explain The Doors and my next artist...

Janis Joplin: She thought she could sing as well as Mama Cass, but I never thought it was such. For that matter, I think her voice was often scary.

Jefferson Airplane: I love "Volunteers." I'm not as big a fan of their other two big hits (not including "We Built This City" as Starship... I love that as a kid growing up with pop music at the time, but it doesn't fit as part of JA). Grace sang better than Janis, but that's a tangent. Still, I look at them as a three-hit wonder, yet it often seems they acheived more.

Santana: I have a friend who plays clarinet professionally and he let me in on the following secret. Santana is seen as a great guitarist, but many practiced musicians scoff at that idea, calling him one of the sloppiest players, even on his biggest hits. I can understand that when I listen closely enough. His later albums were such big hits I think because he got so many popular artists to join in. I love the multicultural aspect of his music, but that I felt was lost on the more recent, popular albums.

Just right artists:

This is the "everyone else" category, but I feel the need to say some words about some artists.

The Beatles: Gods and deservedly so. As the Fab Four and as solo artists (lesser so for Ringo though :manson: ).

Jimi Hendrix: Where he, Jim and Janis are lumped together as great and when they all died so close to each other, it is only James Marshall Hendrix's music which I considered so groundbreaking as the legends say. His guitar, his songs... Being able to pull it all off when when Redding and Mitchell would sometimes try to mess him up intentionally in spite (changing tempos and such). There's a reason we remember Hendrix over his bandmates in the Experience, and it's cause that's where the talent lied.

Eric Clapton: Mean guitar, and I felt in later years he was one of the artists who paid tribute to those who paved the way for him better than other artists.

gameboy
Dec 7th, 2004, 05:40 PM
wow, i am going to have to think about this an report back soon

King Dolemite
Dec 8th, 2004, 04:28 PM
::rubs chin::..... Hmmmm...

I pretty much agree here, although I'd lump Hendrix in the "overrated" category. I'd do so for the exact same reasons I consider Led Zeppelin overrated (well... just Paige and Plant, that is.. Bonham was kickass, at least).

Also, adding to underrated, I'll throw in Dave Clark Five. I was at a store about two years back, looking for their material on cd (before I knew they haven't put it out on cd yet), when I ran into a friend of mine who claims to be a genius with music. I complained that they didn't have any DC5 cds anywhere, when he responded "Yeah, well that's probably because they've never had a hit song." I nearly had a heart attack, but I figured chewing him out and writing him off musically was a better idea.

Deep Purple goes in underrated on my list, as well, but that's b/c they're a favorite of mine, yet people think they recorded "Smoke on the Water" and nothing else. Pisses me off like a magikist.


Where would you put the Stones? I love their music, personally, but the concert I went to was one of the most embarassing sights I have ever lived through.... And sure enough, they released a dvd of that concert, probably in hopes to lose every fan they've ever had.

As far as The Doors go, Morrison was the most overrated, IMO. The two albums they put out after he died were kickass, and highlighted more of the Manzarek/Krieger duo. I still like the Morrison era, nevertheless.

And finally, I'll rank the James Gang and (early) Grand Funk as underrated. As far as the other bands I like from this time period (AC/DC, Sabbath, McCartney, Cheap Trick, etc), well... they're still going - and thus not "past" - and I'll judge them when I can reflect upon their career with a sense of finality. Let's just hope there are no more "McCartney II"s or albums of that calibre released again.

Poce

db44
Dec 9th, 2004, 01:50 AM
Led Zep is one I had been toying with on where they should fit. I'm not a huge fan, but I like a number of songs. But I can see a vast variety in their music and it's often quite innovative, whether doing a ballad like "Over the Hills..." or something rocking like "Rock 'n' Roll." Still, there's a quality in the deepness of their tone that seems to never go away, and that gets a little irksome to me. I'd say the are "just right" but leaning towards over-rated.

I don't see anything overrated in Jimi. Especially when you considered where he started musically and where he was heading when he died (fusion jazz). He knew how to handle a ton of styles and music as a whole package. Morrison was a great poet, not musician. I have no idea what made Janis great in so many eyes. But Jimi's music and writing talent always seemed apparent to me.

I'd agree with the DC5, and throw a "like" band in: The Grass Roots.

Here's a band I like a lot but are extremely overrated: The Monkees. When did they learn to play their instruments? If it wasn't for TV, I'd say they were "only" the original Milli Vanilli. The teeny boppers then still go ga-ga for them, but that's the miracel of TV. But as I said, I do love 'em. Mickey Dolenz is starting a career as a morning DJ here in NYC... I may see if there are any positions available in his show.

The Stones, like Zepplin, I'd say are just right, although slightly overrated. You have to give the Stones credit for being willing to try things, even if it makes them look silly. That mainly goes for the latter years. However, they do have some absolutely killer songs, which show their greatness. Let it Bleed is one of those "must have" albums IMO. The time between their boy-band phase and their 80's poppiness (70's too I guess) had some great stuff. Besides LiB, there's Some Girls. I'd say for all their albums, each one has at least one great song... Up until the Steel Wheels reunification. I have seen them in concert twice and enjoyed it both times... The first time was an eye-opener to me as at the time I didn't know them that well and there were a few times when I was surprised to hear a song was theirs.

I never really got into Deep Purple, but I do know more than "Smoke on the Water." "Hush" is okay.

bekahbeans
Dec 9th, 2004, 04:52 AM
I can't believe you'd say Janis is overrated. She's awesome and I'll tell you why:

Cuz I said so.

the only other thing I have to say is that the Beatles are underrated simply because not everyone in the world realized they are truly the best.

princessKT
Dec 9th, 2004, 01:45 PM
I'd agree about Janis Joplin, Bekah. I can't believe anyone would think Hendrix was overrated.

db44
Dec 10th, 2004, 03:34 AM
Okay, so why is Janis so great? As I said before, I don't think he voice was anything spectacular. In the short time she released stuff, she didn't show any promise of creativity, neither in creating a new sound or in expanding on her original work.

Oh, and here's another overrated band: Steely Dan.

bekahbeans
Dec 10th, 2004, 06:33 AM
You jerk. You only brought them up to piss me off.

Steely Dan rocks.

db44
Dec 10th, 2004, 11:29 AM
No, I told you I thought the were overrated. Our conversation only reminded me that I had failed to list them.

Paulie
Dec 10th, 2004, 11:40 AM
db:

THANK YOU for mentioning the Grass Roots as one of the most underrated bands of the early rock era!!! I've had "Sooner or Later" running through my head all morning. I had the pleasure of seeing them several times in the 80's, and Rob Grill's voice was as strong then as it was during the 60's. Glad to know I'm not alone! (BTW, I also agree with the DC5 comments)

Another group from the 60's that, to me, just never got their full due is the Kinks. Out of all the 60's bands that continued recording new music into the 80's and 90's, I think their music FAR outshone the concurrent efforts of the Stones and the Who. Ray Davies is just a brilliant, BRILLIANT songwriter, and Dave Davies has always been underrated as a truly creative guitar player, overshadowed by the likes of Harrison, Clapton, Page, Townsend, et. al. (nothing against any of the above, BTW). The Kinks' early-80's album "Give the People What They Want" is, IMHO, one of the best albums of all time!! Their body of work elevates them, if not into the holy Parthenon of rock artists, then right at the front door waiting for someone to let them in.

Besides, Dave and Ray are responsible for two of my all-time favorite quotes:

Dave: "It wasn't called 'heavy metal' when I invented it."

Ray: "Dave's family, and sometimes I just don't like family."

Paulie

db44
Dec 10th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Yeah, The Kinks could use some more recognition. Except when it comes to their attempted revival about six years back (during which they massacred S&G's "America").

For me, going back to the Grass Roots, "Live for Today" is one of my favorite songs.

Sinister
Dec 14th, 2004, 09:12 PM
I pretty much agree here, although I'd lump Hendrix in the "overrated" category.

What chu talkin' bout Willis? Two words, Pali Gap..

Sinister
Dec 14th, 2004, 09:30 PM
First off, as Sinister suggested, Barry Manilow? There are a few artists like that which people have to explain their meaning in life to me. Carly Simon fits in there. Wayne Newton. Rod Stewart and Steely Dan too, although they both have their moments.

I was giving my friend Rori a guitar lesson and low and behold she turns on Oprah, featuring a one-time performance by Barry "The Schnoz" (Manilow). I was absolutely astonished by the crowds reaction to that "elevator maestro". I mean these ladies were going nuts like he was Brad Pitt, lol.
Seriously, what is it about a song like "Mandy" that drives women into mass hysteria mode. I've often wondered the same thing about that Clay Aiken cat.

Maybe Barry is nasally gifted.

princessKT
Dec 15th, 2004, 12:01 AM
Barry Manilow is now going to have a Celine Dion-esque show at the Hilton here. I don't get it either.

db44
Dec 15th, 2004, 01:19 AM
We just got a company-wide invite to go see "Copacabana" for cheap.

Uh, no thanks.

Glucose
Dec 20th, 2004, 03:35 AM
Meat Loaf, so many great songs. Life is a Lemon and I Want My Money Back, I LOVE that song - great guitar riff! Long freakin' title, great song. Love driving on a long country road back to uni with "Bat out of Hell" roaring out!

Amazing songs because he sings with ALL of him (and that is a big all) talk about putting your heart into a song!