We are winning the war on terror

[dukestreetking]

That's the best al-Quida can do? Some 10lb homemade bombs? Has anyone noticed that the damage inflicted by their attacks has gone precipitously downhill in nature since 9-11.

Reports are now these may have been a rouge bunch of fanatics that had no part of any organization. Is there any al-Quida organization? There was on 9-11. It's highly doubtful there is now. With all due respect to the loss of life, I think what happened in London is evidence that peace loving people are winning this war.

DSK

[Flory Days]

Tell that to the families of the 50+ dead and to those fortunate enough to have survived. Was this as outrageos and bombastic as 9/11? Of course not, but is it really necessary to match that for an horrific event? 9/11 was the worst thing since WWII. Lets hope we can have 50 years before something else as horrific happens. But do not minimize the devastation wreaked by these terrorists. I don't care if you call them al-queda or al-schmada or whatever you want to call them, a group of people that can and are willing to set off simultaneous explosions in broad daylight should scare the bejesus out of all of us.

Do we give in? Should we change our way of life? No...... but we need to try and figure this out. What we are doing is not working.

[dhenise]

I don't care if you call them al-queda or al-schmada or whatever you want to call them, a group of people that can and are willing to set off simultaneous explosions in broad daylight should scare the bejesus out of all of us.

Do we give in? Should we change our way of life? No...... but we need to try and figure this out. What we are doing is not working.

I don't understand how you can say that. Do you really think they did this because of Iraq? What was their excuse before that? And what was their excuse before the previous excuse? Come on ......... we had no choice.
How do you "figure it out" against a faction that has no desire to negotiate ....... who are consumed by hate. They want to destroy our way of life. They fight a coward's war ..... bent on terror and fear. Someone had to say "ENOUGH"!! Do I think the war is right? I honestly don't know, nor does anyone else here. I do know there are terrorists dying in Iraq every day. It had to start somewhere ......... people are dying all over the world because of these idiots.

[pinky]

people are dying all over the world because of these idiots.
Which is exactly why the title of this thread is incorrect.....we're NOT winning a war in which our other actions, not even connected (initially) to the terrorists, are assisting the terrorists in recruiting.

[orthy]

What we are doing is not working.

You don't know what you're talking about. I would contend that the Patriot Act, the Dept. of Homeland Security, bringing the fight to the terrorists on their home court(s), and overall intelligence improvements are reasons this happened in London and not in Chicago, NY, or LA. Everyday that goes by without another homeland hit is a victory. Victories in this war need to be measured a day at a time...The short-sighted left can't seem to comprehend this...

[dukestreetking]

You don't know what you're talking about. I would contend that the Patriot Act, the Dept. of Homeland Security, bringing the fight to the terrorists on their home court(s), and overall intelligence improvements are reasons this happened in London and not in Chicago, NY, or LA. Everyday that goes by without another homeland hit is a victory. Victories in this war need to be measured a day at a time...The short-sighted left can't seem to comprehend this...

Exactly.

[orthy]

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/orl-edpbrown08070805jul08,0,442768.column?coll=orl-opinion-headlines

[mhafinancial]

Everyday that goes by without another homeland hit is a victory. Victories in this war need to be measured a day at a time...The short-sighted left can't seem to comprehend this...
If that is the threshhold for success, so far the US has had 83,410 victorious days and 1 bad one - 2 if you count McVeigh, but he was homegrown.

[August Blues]

You don't know what you're talking about. I would contend that the Patriot Act, the Dept. of Homeland Security, bringing the fight to the terrorists on their home court(s), and overall intelligence improvements are reasons this happened in London and not in Chicago, NY, or LA. Everyday that goes by without another homeland hit is a victory. Victories in this war need to be measured a day at a time...The short-sighted left can't seem to comprehend this...

Actually, the London target was a very strategic attack, as was Madrid.

[Flory Days]

I don't understand how you can say that. Do you really think they did this because of Iraq? What was their excuse before that? And what was their excuse before the previous excuse? Come on ......... we had no choice.
How do you "figure it out" against a faction that has no desire to negotiate ....... who are consumed by hate. They want to destroy our way of life. They fight a coward's war ..... bent on terror and fear. Someone had to say "ENOUGH"!! Do I think the war is right? I honestly don't know, nor does anyone else here. I do know there are terrorists dying in Iraq every day. It had to start somewhere ......... people are dying all over the world because of these idiots.Dave, I'm not sure what part of this you say you don't understand. My intent was merely to respond to the title of the thread in the context of what happened in London. I don't understand how anyone can talk about winning the war on terror just because this tragedy was smaller and less dramatic than 9/11. Yes, it is a cowards war and I don't believe you can figure out terrorists. I never said we should not say ENOUGH. That doesn't mean an invasion and occupation of Iraq is the appropriate response. Investigators say they have numerous leads. Good, I hope they can proceed and go after the people who did this, much like we went after the Taliban and OBL in Afghanistan (well, for a while anyhow). I don't have a strong belief that London was connected to Iraq but it also doesn't prove that what we do in Iraq is doing anything toward eradicating this type of terror.

[admiralkosmos]

I don't understand how anyone can talk about winning the war on terror just because this tragedy was smaller and less dramatic than 9/11. That doesn't mean an invasion and occupation of Iraq is the appropriate response. Investigators say they have numerous leads. Good, I hope they can proceed and go after the people who did this, much like we went after the Taliban and OBL in Afghanistan (well, for a while anyhow).

Agreed. If there were success in iradicating terrorists (i.e., no terrorists, no terror), then we would see a steady stream of captured terrorists on t.v. We would see the head of Osama Bin Laden. We would see the bodies. But the only two bodies I remember being paraded around were the corpses of Sadaam's sons, mere thugs with no "big system" tie-in. Moreover, we found Sadaam by accident - and again, lest we be lulled into believing otherwise by Monkey man repeatedly saying it was so, Sadaam has nothing to do and had nothing to do with Al Quaida or 9-11.

So. To win the war, we need to take out - neutralize - kill - capture the terrorists. The reason the ass-backward administration is crowing about success is they're capturing and treating badly (i.e., torturing - ah, were Lincoln alive today, I'm sure he'd classify Confederate soldiers as worthy of torture) are the cabbies and lower eschelon soldiers. Were are the central figures? Were are the leaders?

Were, indeed, are OUR LEADERS?

You'll know it when you see it. You'll know when we begin winning the war because it will be revealed.

As for London being small scale, I'd love to truly believe that this is a sign of victory. But one nuclear attack in a suitcase or a blown up refinery can well still occur. Our empire will surely decline if it continues invading countries and occupying them for the sins of others. What an embarrassment.

[lostintheflood2]

As for London being small scale...

We are calling London small scale, but I wonder what we'd say if it happened 5 days a week? That's what the Iraqis are living. It happened again today.

Suicide Bombings Kill at Least 40 in Iraq

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050710/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_2

Interesting that CNN and Fox News aren't giving it the same coverage London got. And isn't it nice when we can protect our shores by raining the terror down on someone else? How beneficent of us!

"We fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here."

First the Iraqis had to endure Saddam, now they have to endure us.

Our empire will surely decline if it continues invading countries and occupying them for the sins of others. What an embarrassment.

This is already happening....

U.S. losing lead in science and engineering-study

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - More than half a century of U.S. dominance in science and engineering may be slipping as America's share of graduates in these fields falls relative to Europe and developing nations such as China and India, a study released on Friday says.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050708/sc_nm/economy_usa_science_dc

I guess that's what happens when our resources go for invading non-offending countries instead of education. And the neo-cons can say what they will, Iraq had done us no harm and was not capable of doing us harm. How many billions have gone into that black hole since we "liberated" them so that they could evolve into a terrorist training camp?

[mhafinancial]

Experts fear 'endless' terror war
Analysts say al-Qaida is mutating into a global insurgency

Updated: 8:38 p.m. ET July 9, 2005

New York and Washington. Bali, Riyadh, Istanbul, Madrid. And now London.

When will it end? Where will it all lead?

The experts aren’t encouraged. One prominent terrorism researcher sees the prospect of “endless” war. Adds the man who tracked Osama bin Laden for the CIA, “I don’t think it’s even started yet.”
Story continues below ↓ advertisement

An Associated Press survey of longtime students of international terrorism finds them ever more convinced, in the aftermath of London’s bloody Thursday, that the world has entered a long siege in a new kind of war. They believe that al-Qaida is mutating into a global insurgency, a possible prototype for other 21st-century movements, technologically astute, almost leaderless. And the way out is far from clear.

In fact, says Michael Scheuer, the ex-CIA analyst, rather than move toward solutions, the United States took a big step backward by invading Iraq.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8524679/

[mhafinancial]

Another shocker..........

Cook: War in Iraq boosted terrorism

Sunday July 24, 04:59 PM

Former foreign secretary Robin Cook has said the invasion of Iraq had "undoubtedly" boosted terrorism around the world.

Mr Cook, who quit the Cabinet over his opposition to the war, said that unless the Government addressed the issue it would struggle to win over young Muslims in Britain.

He stressed that he was not arguing that the attacks on London would not have occurred if Britain had not joined the invasion.

However he said intelligence agencies had warned Tony Blair on the eve of conflict that military action would increase the terrorist threat to Britain.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050724/344/fo1nw.html

[TIES2]

Robin Cook???? Is this the best source you can cite???? There are many others who see things differently.....And what's really interesting about all this is that it is not Iraqis who are perpetrating the acts of terror...it's muslims of many nationalitities...including british citizens who put their muslim identity before their british identity...if anything, all of this should be a wake up call for the hordes who still have their heads firmly planted in the sand....(and I'm trying to be polite here!)

Hope you're having agood weekend!

[pinky]

Connect thte dots and you'll see that our invasion of Iraq has stirred up all kinds of opposition to the US in most Islamic nations

[mhafinancial]

Connect thte dots and you'll see that our invasion of Iraq has stirred up all kinds of opposition to the US in most Islamic nations
Here is one "connect the dots" you'll find interesting....

Cheney and Halliburton (http://www.independent-media.tv/item.cfm?fmedia_id=7746&fcategory_desc=Under%20Reported)

[TIES2]

Connect thte dots and you'll see that our invasion of Iraq has stirred up all kinds of opposition to the US in most Islamic nations


Keep on connecting the dots and you'll see the problem is bigger than that!

[mhafinancial]

Robin Cook???? Is this the best source you can cite???? ...
Does this article make you happier?


War on Terror

'Iraq has been an absolute gift to al-Qaida'

July 24, 2005

BY DANICA KIRKA

LONDON -- Car bombs at an Egyptian luxury hotel. Explosions in London subways. Suicide blasts in Baghdad.

With the frequency of terror attacks apparently mounting, experts searching for common threads behind the attacks suggest that the war on terror is being waged against an ever-increasing well of recruits, bound together by motives and cause -- rather than a single al-Qaida mastermind.

With havens in Afghanistan under pressure and their finances under scrutiny, militants may take philosophical guidance from the likes of Osama bin Laden but are largely relying on their own resources in carrying out operations, experts said Saturday.

''They all want to be part of this phenomenon,'' said Loretta Napoleoni, author of Terror Incorporated: Tracing the Dollars Behind the Terror Networks, as she explained the terror wave. ''It's not like someone is telling [the militants], 'You bomb on the first of July.'"

Anger over the U.S.-led war in Iraq and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict also seems to be providing some inspiration, despite early arguments from Bush administration officials that fighting insurgents in Iraq would help prevent them from launching attacks on Western targets. The war has instead turned into a recruiting tool, experts said.


http://www.suntimes.com/output/terror/cst-nws-ties24s1.html

[TIES2]

No, David....it does not. Because as long as you continue to think that our involvement in Iraq is causing, or, more to your point, exacerbating, the terror problem, you're missing the point -- big time. First of all, the insurgents in Iraq are not soley targeting Americans as one would expect...actually they seem to target Iraqis more than Americans (perhaps for obvious reasons, unarmed targets are a little easier to disrupt than armed ones). But maybe, just maybe, the reason has to do with the major conflict between the ideologies of the insurgents and that of the Shiites...to Bin Laden and crew, at stake is not just the fate of the Iraqi people (whome they really seem to care less about) but the future of Islam.....are you starting to get it yet???? The answer is not the obvious one, like I said, you need to keep on connecting those dots..

And the bombings in London were carried out by British citizens of Pakistani heritage (with the exception of one)....why would British citizens of Pakistani descent blow themselves up because of a war in a country that is not theirs nor the country of any of their ancestors??? Again, Islam is the answer....

I just heard Amr Moussa, Secretary General of the Arab League, on cable tonight reiterate once again that the current loathing of America in the middle east is a result of American policy -- (some liketo call it American imperialism) if that's the case, it certainly did not start with our recent involvment in Iraq and it certainly isn't going to end even if we left tomorrow. US support of Isreal is enough to boil Arab blood for decades to come! But that still does not answer the question as to why three British Citizens of Pakistani descent (which is not considered an Arab or middle eastern country) chose to blow themselves up simply to avenge American and British involvment in Iraq.

And what about Egypt? Apparently they're looking for a few Pakistanis in possible connection with those bombings....But again, Egypt does not practice the flavor of Islam preferred by the fundamentalists....

For a smart guy David you can be pretty dense...

[TIES2]

No, David....it does not. Because as long as you continue to think that our involvement in Iraq is causing, or, more to your point, exacerbating, the terror problem, you're missing the point -- big time. First of all, the insurgents in Iraq are not soley targeting Americans as one would expect...actually they seem to target Iraqis more than Americans (perhaps for obvious reasons, unarmed targets are a little easier to disrupt than armed ones). But maybe, just maybe, the reason has to do with the major conflict between the ideologies of the insurgents and that of the Shiites...to Bin Laden and crew, at stake is not just the fate of the Iraqi people (whome they really seem to care less about) but the future of Islam.....are you starting to get it yet???? The answer is not the obvious one, like I said, you need to keep on connecting those dots..

And the bombings in London were carried out by British citizens of Pakistani heritage (with the exception of one)....why would British citizens of Pakistani descent blow themselves up because of a war in a country that is not theirs nor the country of any of their ancestors??? Again, Islam is the answer....

I just heard Amr Moussa, Secretary General of the Arab League, on cable tonight reiterate once again that the current loathing of America in the middle east is a result of American policy -- (some liketo call it American imperialism) if that's the case, it certainly did not start with our recent involvment in Iraq and it certainly isn't going to end even if we left tomorrow. US support of Isreal is enough to boil Arab blood for decades to come! But that still does not answer the question as to why three British Citizens of Pakistani descent (which is not considered an Arab or middle eastern country) chose to blow themselves up simply to avenge American and British involvment in Iraq.

And what about Egypt? Apparently they're looking for a few Pakistanis in possible connection with those bombings....But again, Egypt does not practice the flavor of Islam preferred by the fundamentalists....

For a smart guy David you can be pretty dense...

[pinky]

The common thread, the one that connects ALL the dots, is not, as you seem to assume, Islam. It's the lust for political power, disguised as Islamic fundamentalism.

The insurgents in Iraq are targeting innocent Iraqis for the simple purpose of disrupting the evolving government there. British citizens may be blowing themselves up because of a war that IS theirs, as British citizens, since Blair has decided to accept anything Junior wants to do in Iraq. The Egyptian bombing is as much against a government seen by Islamic extremists as collaborators as a religious attack.

Al-Qaida and bin Laden are not stupid. They know that it would be difficult to enlist a large following if they based their attacks on politics, because Muslims in Pakistan won't be too concerned about empowering Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia. If, however, that grasp at power is disguised as Islam, it's much easier to stir the emotions.

And, for someone so intelligent, I'm surprised at your complete inability to see your own contradictions.......you cite Moussa's statement about loathing for America being due to our policies in the Arab world, yet fail to see David's point about our invasion of Iraq exacerbating the problem.

[TIES2]

The common thread, the one that connects ALL the dots, is not, as you seem to assume, Islam. It's the lust for political power, disguised as Islamic fundamentalism.

I disagree, it is both Islam and Political....inextricably interwoven and not at all mutually exclusive...

The insurgents in Iraq are targeting innocent Iraqis for the simple purpose of disrupting the evolving government there. British citizens may be blowing themselves up because of a war that IS theirs, as British citizens, since Blair has decided to accept anything Junior wants to do in Iraq. The Egyptian bombing is as much against a government seen by Islamic extremists as collaborators as a religious attack.

I agree with your first and third sentence (and stated as much in my post)...but... come on... British Citizens of non-Muslim descent blowing themselves up because Blair is cow-towing to Bush?????? That's quite a stretch!!!!

Al-Qaida and bin Laden are not stupid. They know that it would be difficult to enlist a large following if they based their attacks on politics, because Muslims in Pakistan won't be too concerned about empowering Wahhabis from Saudi Arabia. If, however, that grasp at power is disguised as Islam, it's much easier to stir the emotions.

Agreed, but disagree on the point that they are viewed spearately...i.e. -- Islam on one hand; political agenda on the other...again, tightly interwoven

And, for someone so intelligent, I'm surprised at your complete inability to see your own contradictions.......you cite Moussa's statement about loathing for America being due to our policies in the Arab world, yet fail to see David's point about our invasion of Iraq exacerbating the problem.

I'm not saying it is not a contributing factor...I'm sure it has contributed, but are these actually new recruits or existing followers of an idealogy who now have a convenient outlet???? It's my ant hill theory --are the ants not there just because you can't see them??? It's probably a mixture of both...

Why I take exception to David's posts and Moussa's comments regarding same is that there tends to be too much generalization or one dimensional thinking concerning the problem. For example, David, like many, see the continuing terror as a direct result of our involvment in Iraq. But who's to say these attacks or others would not have occured even if we never set foot in Iraq. The problem has many components. If it's policy related, it's long-term policy related, not just recent policy (indeed from a policy standpoint alone you would think Britain would be more at risk since they actually have a record of imperialism is in the region). I think we get the lion's share of the wrath because we are viewed as being Isreal's largest ally; which has nothing to do with imperialism....but a lot to do with Arab angst...but again, that's only part of the problem...

Overall, I agree with your assesment...I just don't agree with it in its entirety...