Under the Heading: Puzzling News....

[TIES2]

Apparently British Muslim Clerics' think the answer to London Terror Bombings is for England to Pull Troops from Iraq....

But who wins under that scenario??????? :susp:

From Islam Online....

UK Muslim community urges govt. to change policy
7/22/2005 4:23:00 PM GMT


Source: Thisislondon

Senior figures representing the British Muslim Community have called on UK government to revise its foreign policy in order to put an end to violence in the country.

Britain is in real danger, said Dr. Azzam Tamimi, from the Muslim Association of Britain, who also warned that this would continue as long as British forces remained in Iraq.

Dr. Tamimi described the series of bombings that rocked London on July 7 and the attempted attacks on Thursday as "horrifying". However, he said it was not enough to simply condemn the bombers.

"7/7, 21/7, and God knows what will happen afterwards, our lives are in real danger and it would seem, so long as we are in Iraq and so long as we are contributing to injustices around the world, we will continue to be in real danger....

"Tony Blair has to come out of his state of denial and listen to what the experts have been saying, that our involvement in Iraq is stupid...."

"At the end of the day, these things [violent incidents] are going to happen if current British foreign policy continues. There's a lot of rage, there's a lot of anger", he said.

"We have got to get out of Iraq, it is the crux of the matter. I believe if Tony Blair and George Bush left Iraq and stopped propping up dictatorial regimes in the Muslim world, the threat rate to Britain would come down to nearly zero."

Also Massoud Shadjareh, chair of the Islamic Human Rights Commission, urged the Government to take responsibility for creating the "political environment" in which these attacks occurred....

[PalestinianPride]

Didn't that Al-Qaida website that claimed responsibility for the attack mention that they attacked London because of the injustice in Afghanistan and Iraq?Or something along those lines...

[TIES2]

Yes, but who wins if England retreats? The terrorists? England? It's just puzzling that the clerics would advocate such a thing. One would think their resolve to fight the cancer in their ranks would be more resilient, more resolute. Their response just supports my claim of complicitness among the greater Muslim community, whether directly engaged in supporting terrorism or not. While they agreed to perform watchdog duties, it will be interesting to see if it bears any fruit....

[HeldUp]

One would think their resolve to fight the cancer in their ranks would be more resilient, more resolute. Their response just supports my claim of complicitness among the greater Muslim community, whether directly engaged in supporting terrorism or not.
You can remove cancer but you can also prevent it through changes in behavior.

You have to understand that the Muslim community in America or Britain -- without the tools of the intelligence community -- cannot really be expected to do more than be on the lookout for terrorists and "outing" those who preach it. As citizens integrated in the West, we are not only the victims of terror but also the victims of hate crimes and the focus/target of the intelligence/law enforcement community with a wide-brush strokes. I know you don't care, but this is not an easy time for us. We're looking out for America but also watching out backs. After all, who's going to do that for us?

The terrorists are not working in broad daylight. If that were the case, they would have been infiltrated by now. These are rats that work in the shadows and prey on those looking for a religious justification to die for a cause -- a lethal combination as we all know. And anyone looking for justification of illegal/immoral acts will find it, whether in the Qur'an, Torah, Bible, or cereal box...

[HeldUp]

This article in today's L.A. Times:

Homegrown Risk Worries U.S. Muslims (http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/la-me-muslims25jul25,1,2620626.story)

By Larry B. Stammer
Times Staff Writer
July 25, 2005

Highlights:

* * *

Since the July 7 London bombings that killed 56 — including four British Muslims presumed to be suicide bombers — and Thursday's similar but less damaging attacks, Muslim leaders said they would focus directly on their own young people and why a small minority may be attracted to a virulent interpretation of their faith that has abetted terrorism. In Virginia, the Muslim American Society said it would intensify its work with youths and expand youth training programs to encourage volunteerism, community service and overall civic engagement.

* * *

"We must get to our youth before someone else does," Maher Hathout of the Islamic Center of Southern California said during a Friday sermon in Los Angeles. "We must respond to their needs and their questions so that we don't leave room for individuals with false and dangerous ideologies to lead them astray."

* * *

"We want to make sure our youth get the proper understanding of Islam and help them fulfill all their potential and keep them out of the range of extremism and moral vices," said Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, who said his group will step up outreach through affiliated Boy Scout and Girl Scout troops. "The worst moral vice I can think of is … to combat injustice, or perceived injustice, through injustice."

* * *

Their frustration, mainstream Muslim leaders have said, is that they have condemned violence and terrorism from the start. "We can't yell any louder. People who are hateful, people who espouse this ideology, are not going to hear us one more time and say, 'What am I thinking?'

* * *

"To be honest with you, I don't see it [terrorist thinking] in our community. That's why these attacks are such a shock to us," said Hadia Mubarak, past president of the Muslim Students Assn. "When you don't know if someone is hiding, they're hiding from everyone. They're hiding from Muslims as well as others."

* * *

But regardless of U.S. foreign policy, Ahmed said Muslims have no choice but to press forward with an invigorated outreach to their own. The message leaders must take to their youth is that the way to change things is through democratic means, not violence, he said. "I'm not at all satisfied with Muslim leadership. I want to see them much more active. I want to see them nail the [American] flag to the mosque," Ahmed said. "They have to make it clear that they are Americans."

[mhafinancial]

http://www.buzzflash.com/peyser/05/07/images/25peyser.gif

[TIES2]

I invite all of you to log on to the CAIR (Council on American Islamic Relations) website. I find this to be a fascinating site. First, as one would expect from a Muslim Civil Reights group, CAIR was quick to condemn the recent terror events in London and Egypt...here's a quote from one of the press releases...

“To prevent the terrorists from achieving what seems to be their goal of sparking an apocalyptic conflict, people of all faiths should react to these crimes by redoubling their efforts to promote interfaith understanding and to challenge mindless hatred, whatever its source.”

Then there's a press release stating that CAIR welcomes call for conference on extremism (in direct response to Tony's Blair calling a meeting with Muslim Clerics in Britain, which by the way I think was a brilliant strategy, but more on that later).

I can also read all about any negative comment anybody anywhere ever said about Islam or Muslims (regardless if the comment was terror related). There's even a little sub section titled Voices of Hate, which includes Ann Coulter, Michael Savage, Daniel Pipes, Pat Robertson, etc. I can even record an incidence of muslim hate or prejudice...they have action alerts whereby the community is asked to write to these publications to ask for retractions on any statement deemed potentially offensive to Muslims...

Yet no where on this site am I invited or encouraged to keep my eyes open and report on suspicious activities that may be ocurring in my mosque, in my neighborhood, etc. T

Why is that?????? This site seems wholly preoccupied with removing any mention of Islam and Muslims from our newspapers, radios and television sets; yet at the same time making sure our libraries include Muslim books and literature (provided, I guess, they are pro Muslim).

The press release quoted above encourages people of all faith to work together, but this site only seems to look after the interests of one faith.

This site is a sham....

[HeldUp]

Yet no where on this site am I invited or encouraged to keep my eyes open and report on suspicious activities that may be ocurring in my mosque, in my neighborhood, etc.
Because another organization is leading this charge. The Muslim Public Affairs Council, the premiere American Muslim organization, has already done it (as I noted earlier) with their National Anti-Terrorism Campaign Handbook (http://www.mpac.org/atc/home.asp).

Find Out What Over 600 American Muslims communities Are Doing to Protect Their Country and Their Mosques.

[TIES2]

Because another organization is leading this charge. The Muslim Public Affairs Council, the premiere American Muslim organization, has already done it (as I noted earlier) with their National Anti-Terrorism Campaign Handbook (http://www.mpac.org/atc/home.asp).

Find Out What Over 600 American Muslims communities Are Doing to Protect Their Country and Their Mosques.


All need to be involved...cause as you know one bad apple...

[TIES2]

Because another organization is leading this charge. The Muslim Public Affairs Council, the premiere American Muslim organization, has already done it (as I noted earlier) with their National Anti-Terrorism Campaign Handbook (http://www.mpac.org/atc/home.asp).

Find Out What Over 600 American Muslims communities Are Doing to Protect Their Country and Their Mosques.


Still see the primary focus on media cleansing....but let me ask you, what kind of success is this program having? How many subversive elements have been removed from the ranks? Anything I have heard about domestic arrests and interrogations inside the US concerning individuals wirh suspected terrorist ties have come from outside the self-policing Muslim community....perhaps you have data that proves otherwise....

[HeldUp]

Still see the primary focus on media cleansing....but let me ask you, what kind of success is this program having? How many subversive elements have been removed from the ranks? Anything I have heard about domestic arrests and interrogations inside the US concerning individuals wirh suspected terrorist ties have come from outside the self-policing Muslim community....perhaps you have data that proves otherwise....
It's not a matter of how many "subversive elements have been removed from the ranks." It's a matter of bringing it to the attention of the American Muslim masses that you have an obligation to your country and your religious community to be accountable for those using your facilities and that preaching hatred will not be tolerated.

As I said before, the terrorists are not working in broad daylight. If that were the case, they would have been infiltrated by now. These are rats that work in the shadows and prey on those looking for a religious justification to die for a cause -- a lethal combination as we all know. And anyone looking for justification of illegal/immoral acts will find it.

As the young lady said, "When you don't know if someone is hiding, they're hiding from everyone. They're hiding from Muslims as well as others."

[TIES2]

I beg to differ but Palestinian Pride went off on a rant that suggested even so-called moderate practitioners are (and can)succumb to fundamentalist thinking (if not in action, at least thought).

Back to CAIR, how can they, as representatives of the Muslim community at large, label as voices of hate those who make statements in opposition to Islam? Does it not make them as guilty as those they are condemning??? Is Maureen Dowd, a well respected editorial writer, a voice of hate, because she bashes Christian fundamentalists? Does Charles Krueger (sp???) fall into that same category???? Imus? Everything is fair game to him. We do live in a country that alows and encourages freedom of speech. You are allowed to criticize the President. You can refer to him as being stupid, a neo-con, whatever, without fear of reprisal (and the press actively engages in this on a daily basis). Now if you threaten the president's life, or any one's life, that's a different story...now you've stepped over the line.

The Muslim community should not expect everything they read to be supportive, nor should they expect retraction statements when it's not. They should come to see that as life in America. A free society with a guarantee of freedom of speech, positive, negative or anywhere in between.

[HeldUp]

I beg to differ but Palestinian Pride went off on a rant that suggested even so-called moderate practitioners are (and can) succumb to fundamentalist thinking (if not in action, at least thought).
Well, by definition, they'd no longer be moderate, right? Besides, everybody has an opinion, even Muslims. It doesn't mean everyone is right, right?

Back to CAIR, how can they, as representatives of the Muslim community at large, label as voices of hate those who make statements in opposition to Islam? Does it not make them as guilty as those they are condemning???
I am personally not a big fan or CAIR. While they are probably the most well-known American Muslim group, they are not the most effective -- IMO that title goes to MPAC (http://www.mpac.org). CAIR may "represent" some Muslims (or even a large group of Muslims) but they don't represent the Muslim Community at large. How many groups represent Christians or Jews at large?

The Muslim community should not expect everything they read to be supportive, nor should they expect retraction statements when it's not. They should come to see that as life in America. A free society with a guarantee of freedom of speech, positive, negative or anywhere in between..
I don't disagree but, I think you should apply your own thinking here. Using this logic, wouldn't that apply to non-Muslims, as well? If I speak against Christianity, does that make me a voice of hate?