OT Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism' article - any thoughts/opinions/comments? [Archive]

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 22nd, 2006, 06:38 AM

I also found this article... which I find pretty sad and wanted to share it with you... I'm curious as to your opinions/thoughts about this, has anyone here (I know at least one person here who has) been brought up in the US but then moved and lived abroad like esp. in the UK and if so have you encountered anything like this? if so, what did you think about it? did you expect anything like this etc.

Anyway here's some of the article:-

Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'

As a US citizen living in London, Christian Cox says she is shocked at the amount of abuse she receives because of her nationality.

She says the level of anti-Americanism she has experienced "feels like a kind of racism".

"I don't want anyone to feel sorry for Americans, or me, I just want people to realise that we are dealing with hatred too," she says.

Typical British pub banter is one thing, says Christian Cox, but the "pure hatred" she says is directed at her for being American is really starting to wear her down.

The former model moved to London a year ago, where she is setting up her own business, and has been surprised at how some people have reacted to her nationality.

Ms Cox, 29, says she has been called, among other things, "terrorist", "scum", "low life", and feels that she is constantly being held to account for the actions of President Bush and for US foreign policy.

This is despite the fact that she doesn't agree with the war in Iraq and didn't vote for Bush.

You can read the rest of the article as well as alot of comments left by people on this subject (both British and American), here:- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4881474.stm

I think this is an interesting topic...

journalistic

Apr 22nd, 2006, 06:52 AM

Absolutely disgusting.

BsbBroksGirl

Apr 22nd, 2006, 07:02 AM

Um, thank you to the people who voted for Bush I suppose?

American leaders haven't always made popular decisions but it seems like ever since Bush got elected and started his Iraqi crusade everyone else looks down on us. I've been asked why I would support such a President..don't look at me, I sure as hell didn't vote for him. Gotta loveee the amendment for the 2 term limit.

DoubleEdgeSword

Apr 22nd, 2006, 07:53 AM

You got that right. We'd be looking at another King George.

2Bad2Believe

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:55 AM

Yes, I experienced a lot of that in England. That was before Bush, too..

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 22nd, 2006, 09:08 AM

You got that right. We'd be looking at another King George.

:scratch:

emjay

Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:18 PM

Um, thank you to the people who voted for Bush I suppose?

Um, No?

You're just as bad as them, for 'blaming' this on the people who voted for Bush. Being treated like that for a leader's decisions, regardless of whether or not you voted for him, is terrible.

StarGlitter7609

Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:20 PM

I'm not surprised.

Whoda Thunk?

Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:26 PM

Delancey

Apr 22nd, 2006, 12:30 PM

sometimesone has to be in a situation to really understand what it really means to treat mankind with respect.

poppy

Apr 22nd, 2006, 02:09 PM

the problem is that people tend to generalize...noone outside the US likes Bush, and yet he was voted twice, so people are ticked off at Americans, lol, which I think is stupid...I always go by the "if you're nice to me, I'm nice to u" I would NEVER judge people like that, I might not like some americans, and I HATE their goverment,(I HATE mine too and I adore my country :p) but is not like I'd jump at any american, lol, I'm a Backstreet Fan and they're american, that says something...I must say that I KNOW that some americans do that too...like after 9/11, people see anyone that looks from the Middle East and they're already jumping on, and treated like ..when maybe is just people that actually LOVE the US and are living a good life there...is not EVERoOne in the US, obviously but it happens..I understand they're scared, but that's not reason to react like that cuz is only gonna make people hate "Americans" even more, I mean, how can you expect people to react when someone that wants to live a good life as an american is been given hell?

the percolator

Apr 22nd, 2006, 02:09 PM

Was Tony Blair re-elected?

toots6674

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:16 PM

What disgusts me are celebrities (ie Madonna) who rake America over the coals every chance they get, but still use us to make their money. People like that make me ill. The media doesnt help our country out any as well. Every other country in the world knows are business. People stand on national TV and bash our President at every turn. Other countries, sadly, think we are a joke. What irritates me is that when we need help (ie 911), no one will help us, but you can bet when they need help during a crisis, those other countries are the first to put their hands out and ask us for our support.

the percolator

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:32 PM

What disgusts me are celebrities (ie Madonna) who rake America over the coals every chance they get, but still use us to make their money.

That's how I feel about Bono. He's always criticizing the U.S., but you can always count on U2's annual U.S. tour.

toots6674

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:43 PM

My sentiments exactly.

Catherine

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:51 PM

I think that is pretty sad :(

I was travveling in England & France & Spain two years ago and my two friends and I made sure we had Canadian flags all over our bags and told people immediatly we were Canadian. The Americans can be treated pretty poorly....especially by the French!!!!!!!!

So glad to be a Canadian when travveling....very unfortunate for Americans though :(

edit: just read the article and this was interesting...from my standpoint as a Canadian and what I had just written above!!

"Some friends now advise her to tell people she is Canadian, to deflect potential abuse, an option she calls "sad". "
"I was aware before I moved here that when you travelled abroad it was always better to say you were Canadian if you could get away with it. But we treated it more like a joke."

toots6674

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:55 PM

It is very unfortunate for Americans when you cant travel to another country and proudly announce where it is that you are from. Funny, we accept all of these other cultures and ideas into our country (are forced to), but then we are criticized by just about every one else.

BsbBroksGirl

Apr 22nd, 2006, 08:59 PM

Um, No?

You're just as bad as them, for 'blaming' this on the people who voted for Bush. Being treated like that for a leader's decisions, regardless of whether or not you voted for him, is terrible.

I meant it in the sense that people blame all Americans for voting him in but how can you when not everyone voted for him?

boneskitty

Apr 22nd, 2006, 09:26 PM

It sucks to be treated poorly for any reason beyond your control. Having said that, we have Americans that are guilty of treating non-American born people as poorly, if not worse, based on the fact that they weren't born in America.

I don't disagree with you, but I feel it pulls away from the topic. I'm not saying you can't express your opinion, but that's not what we should be discussing here.
Being a tourist in another country cannot compare to actually living there. What I learned living in Italy really changed my views of America, Americans, and the rest of the world. You cannot just generalize Americans. It doesn't make it ok that Americans treat others poorly. That does not mean that when I go to Mexico they should spit in my face. Or that I should be the subject of Bush hate while I am in France.
Unfortunatley this is what people really think and how they really act.
I went to see Farenheight 9.11 in Italy. I am from NY, that day is engraved in my brain forever. The movie was great, interesting, and sad all at the same time.
What was terrible was that I wanted to go home and cry that something like this could happen in my back yard. While all the italians laughed and ridiculed how stupid we are, and went our to drink. Hey so they have no jobs and a negative growth in Italy, but hell they weren't the victims of a the worst terrorist attack ever. So what do they care? But at the same time, I love it there, and yes sometimes I do think Americans are pretty messed sometimes.
But I also had my, "I AM AN AMERICAN!!!" days.
They were always like, AMericans are so this, and AMericans are so that.... what could I say, they were right about what they said.
They are just DIFFERENT. I mean I can't even tell you how many "messed up" stuff i saw in Italy. But what are you going to do, it's a different country.
So yes the article is very real, and can be very painful. I could go on and on...
But to expand on what Whoda Thunk said above..I have learned that we should treat everyone in an individual basis. Show love, be anti-war, and believe in a better future if we give up now we are only failing ourselves.

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:16 AM

Alot of people think that Americans are arrogant and spoiled, its sad because I dont believe that to be the case with everyone obv. you cant generalise so much a country that has such a massive population but I know people do think that way... my parents are a bit like that (though they'd probably kill me if I said I'd said that lol)
I remember when 9/11 happened and of course on the TV there had been nothing but complete coverage of it since it started around 1pm (British time) and I pretty clearly remember when it was being discussed in detail on the main 6 O' Clock news when we were having dinner that my mum was complaining saying that its a pain their going to be talking about nothing other than this for the next few days at least, like what a pain, everythings going to be about America to which I thought :eek: that was kind of harsh, back then of course we didnt know if anything else was going to happen, it was of international importance really i think you couldnt say it was just something affecting the US then they could have planned for more to happen in other countries like here, who knew? I didnt expect to hear that sort of attitude from my parents... and then again when the elections happened the other year and the news coverage showed some of the Bush supporters etc., again my parents were like thinking what stupid ppl they are over there etc. and I was saying well I know from what I've read online from ppl who live there that its not as simple as that, there are plenty of people who oppose him and wont vote for him and so on but then he won the election so *shrug* oh well lol...
When stuff happens and people generalise like that I always try to defend the US simply because like Alma says its not fair to generalise people like I say since theres such a massive population you cant think everyones stupid for supporting Bush when I know perfectly well not everyone does, you shouldnt jump to conclusions about stuff...
I dunno some times when I try to say like thats not true or thats not really fair on them, I kinda feel a bit...eh...embarrassed or what-not, you know its like why do you have to defend something like that? eh I dunno ive never even been there *shrug* I just do (95% of the time anyway).

I think perhaps another point or whatever is that people will think of Americans as, well the stereotype I'd say is of a fat, brash, loud and arrogant person because those who can afford to come somewhere like here (and thus are fairly well off financially) are probably more likely to have those eh attributes, you know? maybe... same as ppl here can be loud and arrogant too, im sure there are people in every country who are loud and arrogant *shrug*

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:28 AM

oh another thing I just remembered, we have quite a few TV documentaries set around airports here and one show I saw a few years ago was filmed on 9/11 and there were problems when obviously they had decided to cancel the flights until they knew what was going on and mainly for safety (obviously) after 9/11 had hit the news... anyway it showed all these people getting really angry that their flights had been temporarily cancelled because of what was going on in NY... they couldnt understand how it affected them in the UK. The stewards at check in tried to explain that they just didnt know if it was safe to be in the air at this time as they didnt know what had happened in NY but that this awful thing had happened and 2 planes had gone down etc. and the people just couldnt see how that made it an issue here and they thought it was ridiculous that their flights had been cancelled and i think, dont quote me on this but i think because they'd become so angry about the total cancellation of all flights that day they started swearing and blaming America for it :rolleyes: i mean i was watching it thinking that was ridiculous really, ok if they wanted to potentially risk their lives sure fine go ahead but, nah, that just seemed ridiculous that they were so mad about it... I was pretty shocked at that reaction too. That documentary was broadcast probably at least 6 months or maybe a year after it happened but i remember when they covered the event the days after it happened everyone involved in phone ins were saying how sorry they were about what had happened and how they gave their sympathies to all the families involved etc... I guess it really isnt as simple as that...but honestly for such a major event, as a British citizen not an American, I still really dont entirely 'get' why there was this at the worst I suppose anger at the US about it somehow and at the least nonchalance (is that the word?) and mild annoyance about it...
all i can guess is people didnt understand the scale of what had happened and/or were maybe masking that really they were nervous about what might happen to our country or thought that maybe America had done something abroad to start it that we werent aware of and all this might spark off some world war or something that would affect us all when we had nothing to do with the start of it... perhaps, just perhaps, it was stuff like that, that people were thinking and that made them angry at the US...but thats just a total guess, I really dont know and I do think it was pretty insensitive for those who did behave like that.

To me, anywhere that suddenly gets attacked and 100s or 1000s of innocent people lose their lives (in a non-war setting), gets my thoughts and sympathies.

Phatty

Apr 23rd, 2006, 04:24 AM

Originally from Fiji, I grew up in America, I've lived in the UK for about 2 years before moving to Germany where I am at the moment. And to tell ya the truth I haven't encountered any racisms or anything of that sort. Nearly all of my British friends or British people that I've come across are interested and fascinated about America.

I've always lived by the golden rule, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

About the article, I feel sorry for the lady for what she had to go through. I think it's a bunch of B.S. that she's being treated like that just because she's American.

Amanda_19

Apr 23rd, 2006, 05:48 AM

b_roksta2000

Apr 23rd, 2006, 05:56 AM

I don't know any brits who have a problem with americans per se...just the president. As far as im aware, the US friends I have (living here in the UK) dont feel like they experience any form of "racism".

kimmelinn

Apr 23rd, 2006, 06:21 AM

I think perhaps another point or whatever is that people will think of Americans as, well the stereotype I'd say is of a fat, brash, loud and arrogant person because those who can afford to come somewhere like here (and thus are fairly well off financially) are probably more likely to have those eh attributes, you know?

Don't we all have stereo types until we get to know people from that country? I heard stories of former classmates of mine, who went to highschool in the usa for a year, and they got seriously questions if we really walk on wooden shoes all the time (ok my dad does sometimes when gardening), if we really eat that much cheese, about windmills and that typicly 'Dutch' stuff.. Some of their classmates in America didn't even new Amsterdam was our capital, and NOT a country next to Holland..

So if you only hear those stories, it's kinda obvious we would think Americans where stopid.. Unfortunately not everyone has an open mind, and first does some research before creating a meaning for themselves, otherwise they would know that some Americans DO rock big time ;)

I think it's a lot the fault of the media, for creating such a bad image for Americans, and not only Bush does that, what to think about Paris, Nicole, Jessica Simpson etc... They are pretty, but don't come over as the smartest people.

I am guessing, that if I'd go to America, they would see me as bitchy and stuck up, just because Dutch people tend to have a sober nature (mostly we don't believe stuff untill we saw it)

And I think you've had this 'stereotype' before 9/11 already... But it is true that America gets a lot attention in the news, 9/11 got way more then the tsunami for example.. And yeah, I can imagine that there are people who get sick of that, cuz for them, it just seems as if Americans always want their country to get attention.

journalistic

Apr 23rd, 2006, 07:37 AM

And I think you've had this 'stereotype' before 9/11 already... But it is true that America gets a lot attention in the news, 9/11 got way more then the tsunami for example.. And yeah, I can imagine that there are people who get sick of that, cuz for them, it just seems as if Americans always want their country to get attention.

One thing to point out is that Americans donated millions, if not billions, of dollars to the tsunami relief effort.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:40 AM

About the world not helping the US when they are in need. Did you guys know that within 24 hours of the Katrina Hurricane disaster tons and tons of airplanes with supplies, water and other rescue-type stuff were waiting on airports throughout Sweden and Europe (and probably other countries and continents) ready to fly but were not allowed to go. Bush didn't want the help. So they were forbidden to even fly to the US, which is just bizarre.

One thing to point out is that Americans donated millions, if not billions, of dollars to the tsunami relief effort.
As did each and every country of the Western World.

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:42 AM

*coughtheguyisafoolcough*

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:45 AM

I think it was the same back in 2001 for 9/11. We weren't allowed to help.

journalistic

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:47 AM

As did each and every country of the Western World.

I never said they didn't, but okay sweetie.

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:51 AM

:rolleyes:

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:51 AM

[QUOTE=RoksGoldenSmile]*coughtheguyisafoolcough*[/QUOTE}]
See its comments like that about our President that bother me. Not that you are saying it about him personally, that's your opinion, but that people openly criticize him as a whole. You cannot hear any good comments in the media about him these days. He is the President of our nation, whether or not he's wanted, so there should be a degree of respect that comes with the position I think. The President is the leader of this nation and the media, and society, have turned it into a joke. You dont hear other nations criticizing and making fun of their leaders. I understand that this is America and you have the right to say what you want, but now its all about finding out what secrets the President has in his closet.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:54 AM

Generalizations are never good an in America there are good and nice people like everywhere else.Bush, however, is US's biggest mistake. The guy is leading the country to hell. :noway:

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:54 AM

oh I dont know people often make fun of our prime minister and the french prime minister, um probably others too lol if you look in newspapers they have those poltical satire/satirical cartoons that depict politicians often/usually in a somewhat humorous light...lol...we had a tv show called Spitting Image that was around for years that made fun of the government and the royal family and celebs, all sorts lol *shrug*
I just dont think its fair to target people individually and go on at them as if their to blame for what the countries politics are... you know?

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:55 AM

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 08:59 AM

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:01 AM

You dont hear other nations criticizing and making fun of their leaders.
What country doesn't make fun of their leaders and bash them whenever they're doing something horribly wrong? A nation where people think you should not be allowed criticize your leader is not a democracy but a dictatorship or a police state.

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:02 AM

What country doesn't make fun of their leaders and bash them whenever they're doing something horribly wrong? A nation where people think you should not be allowed criticize your leader is not a democracy but a dictatorship or a police state.
But I think that we have taken the satire and criticism too far.

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:03 AM

this doesnt have to be all about politics as well...

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:04 AM

You dont have to respect the man, Im not saying that, but there should be a certain level of respect that comes with the position. I voted for the man twice (Im pretty ultra conservative) and I will be the first to admit that the man has disappointed me and has not met any of my expectations, but I still respect the fact that he is the President.

I concur with the idea that the US administration has become a popular joke but I don't think the press it's the one to blame for that. Maybe, just maybe, if Bush and his people had done things a little bit better they would have earned more respect from everybody. Respect should be earned not given just because of your position.
Also I do believe that all the joking around it's a way for everybody to deal with the sh¡t that this man is putting the world through. :(

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:04 AM

But I think that we have taken the satire and criticism too far.
The man only gets what he deserves. The satire and criticism wouldn't be as harsh if they actually thought he was worthy of being the President.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:05 AM

I concur with the idea that the US administration has become a popular joke but I don't think the press it's the one to blame for that. Maybe, just maybe, if Bush and his people had done things a little bit better they would have earned more respect from everybody. Respect should be earned not given just because of your position.
Also I do believe that all the joking around it's a way for everybody to deal with the sh¡t that this man is putting the world through. :(
I would rep you but I'm all out! Excellent post!

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:06 AM

What country doesn't make fun of their leaders and bash them whenever they're doing something horribly wrong? A nation where people think you should not be allowed criticize your leader is not a democracy but a dictatorship or a police state.

I agree Anna. That sounds to much like what my parents have told me about Franquisim, a dictatorship that lasted for 40 years in my country. Not again and not anywhere else, please.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:07 AM

I would rep you but I'm all out! Excellent post!

It's OK Anna. Thanks anyway! :D

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:10 AM

I concede, respect should be earned. I guess I just view it a little differently. I just dont understand why we need to know all of the President's dirty little secrets.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:10 AM

I agree Anna. That sounds to much like what my parents have told me about Franquisim, a dictatorship that lasted for 40 years in my country. Not again and not anywhere else, please.
The 20th century was full of them sadly. You would have thought people would learn from the past 100 years but I guess not

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:12 AM

I concede, respect should be earned. I guess I just view it a little differently. I just dont understand why we need to know all of the President's dirty little secrets.
If a man is going to lead an entire nation the people have the right to know everything about that guy and they have the right to demand it.

It's funny you should say that because what some (if not most) conservatives are ALWAYS going on about is how Clinton's personal life was such a shame to the country and made him such a bad, bad president.

I don't know who said this, but it's a great quote:

"Nobody died when Clinton lied"

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:13 AM

Sadly if a Hitler figure would suddenly rise up, guarantee he would have followers.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:14 AM

Sadly if a Hitler figure would suddenly rise up, guarantee he would have followers.
He's already risen and he already has followers

NicksSummerGurl

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:15 AM

I am American.
I did NOT ever vote for W.
I have never mis-treated anyone who looks like they're from the Middle East, nor even thought about it.
I want to live the good life as an American and am given hell.

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:15 AM

If a man is going to lead an entire nation the people have the right to know everything about that guy and they have the right to demand it.

It's funny you should say that because what some (if not most) conservatives are ALWAYS going on about is how Clinton's personal life was such a shame to the country and made him such a bad, bad president.

I don't know who said this, but it's a great quote:

"Nobody died when Clinton lied"
I never, personally, cared who Clinton slept with. He wasnt the first President to get caught with his pants down and he wont be the last. I simply didnt like the man. With men and power comes affairs. Maybe thats cynical of me, but thats how it works. Doesnt make it right.

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:16 AM

He's already risen and he already has followers
Who are you referring to?

journalistic

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:17 AM

This thread has been rendered useless since the anti-American crowd has found its way into it.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:32 AM

Wow never thought I'd be adding useless to the list

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 09:36 AM

This thread has been rendered useless since the anti-American crowd has found its way into it.

I dont believe anyone here has said that they are 'anti-American', what are you basing that on? so perhaps some people arent happy with the government, that doesnt mean that dont like, let alone hate, their country... infact I believe (correct me if im wrong) your current president says or appears to be keen on spreading democracy in countries across the world, right? well by doing so, if that indeed happens, then this allows people in said countries to be able to voice their opinions and criticisms of their government/politics...

so if your presuming that people who arent totally happy with your government or otherwise mentions anything at all negative about the country, are somehow 'anti-American' then, to me, your over simplifying it, as there being people for and against the country, as if there cant be anything inbetween?

If thats the case then your saying it can only be a valid conversation when people on one side of the argument are discussing their views :scratch: (presumably the 'pro America' crowd who see nothing wrong(?)) :eek:
wow...ok... admit defeat if you like lol *shrug* any and everyone is welcome to put their views across no matter what side of the debate you are... im sure there are plenty of people who have different views to those posted on this page.

Berly

Apr 23rd, 2006, 11:21 AM

That's sad, but things like that happened even before the whole mess in Iraq. I'm sure it's much worse now though. A lot of people aren't smart enough to differentiate between the American government and the American people. Almost half the nation voted to get Bush out of office. There were also plenty of people who didn't really want him back in office but felt that he was better than the alternative, or felt that he created this mess and should be the one to fix it. I disagree with that logic, but whatever. His approval rating is at an all time low and with good reason.

Whether it be jokes, satire, or outright bashing, the man deserves every bit of it. I refuse to blindly support him simply because he's the president. Although I didn't vote for him, he represents ME, and he's doing a horrible job of it. People NEED to speak out and to be outraged.

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 11:29 AM

This thread went from being about harassment/violence to Bush-bashing. Before someone makes a stupid attack on me, I'm American and liberal. At the same time, it's scary that some of you seem to even partially justify this treatment because you don't like Bush's policy or the "supposed" arrogance of Americans. I don't care if you meet the most spoiled arrogant American ever; that doesn't give you the right to give her a black eye once you find out she's American.

Tony Blair was Bush's bitch so the British who posted anti-American statements in that story are hypocrites. The U.K. does everything we do, just on a smaller level. So to the British, if you hate us you hate yourself.

BsBmIrAcLeZ

Apr 23rd, 2006, 11:45 AM

I think its pathetic. When I was over in Europe (specifically Paris) we always got rude remarks because of what Bush and his administration is doing. I didn't vote for him. I don't like him. I don't agree with most if not all of his policies. And yet us Americans get blamed for what our leaders do. I do blame the Americans who voted for him not once, but TWICE! But I hate the generalizations made by Europeans and others around the world.

StarGlitter7609

Apr 23rd, 2006, 12:43 PM

Is the way that people in other countries treat Americans really all that different than the way Americans treat people from other countries?

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 23rd, 2006, 12:44 PM

Well we dont ALL generalise, that much I can say...

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:45 PM

Is the way that people in other countries treat Americans really all that different than the way Americans treat people from other countries?
EXACTLY! Thank you! Excellent point!

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:46 PM

This thread has been rendered useless since the anti-American crowd has found its way into it.

Nice to know you are so closed-minded you can stand someone not liking Bush.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:48 PM

I have nothing against American people. Nothing at all. It's that jerk of a president I can't stand.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:49 PM

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:54 PM

Nice to know you are so closed-minded you can stand someone not liking Bush.
You know, I don't get it when some (see I said some, not generalizing here!) Americans go beserk as soon as somebody not from the US criticize their president, way of life, ideas, ideologies or opinions and yet they have A LOT to say about other countries' leaders, way of life, ideas, ideologies or opinions.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 02:56 PM

You know, I don't get it when some (see I said some, not generalizing here!) Americans go beserk as soon as somebody not from the US criticize their president, way of life, ideas, ideologies or opinions and yet they have A LOT to say about other countries' leaders, way of life, ideas, ideologies or opinions.

I know Anna. Some people are saying that some American people are not specially arrogant when it comes to their ideologies, yet they say you cannot have an opinion on their political, cultural and ideological background because you are NOT American and therefore you have no right. Excuse me, but regardless of your nationality, you are being a jerk. Period. What makes Bush a jerk are his acts, not his nationality.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:03 PM

I know Anna. Some people are saying that some American people are not specially arrogant when it comes to their ideologies, yet they say you cannot have an opinion on their political, cultural and ideological background because you are NOT American and therefore you have no right. Excuse me, but regardless of your nationality, you are being a jerk. Period. What makes Bush a jerk are his acts, not his nationality.
Exaaactly! Thank you! :biggrin:

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:05 PM

Is the way that people in other countries treat Americans really all that different than the way Americans treat people from other countries?

That's a stupid question. Tell me, how do Americans treat people from other countries?

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:07 PM

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:11 PM

That's a stupid question. Tell me, how do Americans treat people from other countries?

There's arrogant people around the world, regardless of their nationality. BUT, there are some American people (and I said SOME) that arrogant and rude regarding their nationality which is the point of that article. I suppose that happens with other countries as well.

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:13 PM

There's arrogant people around the world, regardless of their nationality. BUT, there are some American people (and I said SOME) that arrogant and rude regarding their nationality which is the point of that article. I suppose that happens with other countries as well.

No, that's not the point of the article. The lady was abused and harassed jsut for being American. She wasn't rude or arrogant to anyone. As soon as those idiots found out she was American, they shouted obsenities at her and gave her a black eye.

Stop trying to justify it. It's disgusting.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:14 PM

I dont think its fair people judge me for a president I dont support what so ever who screwed over our country bad and cares more about oil and Iraq than his own country. I dont judge people for where they live or how they live, I even agree with those who dont like Bush but to generalize and say that I look down on other countries is whack.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:16 PM

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:18 PM

That's how I feel about Bono. He's always criticizing the U.S., but you can always count on U2's annual U.S. tour.

Because half the US agrees with him

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:18 PM

No, that's not the point of the article. The lady was abused and harassed jsut for being American. She wasn't rude or arrogant to anyone. As soon as those idiots found out she was American, they shouted obsenities at her and gave her a black eye.

Stop trying to justify it. It's disgusting.

HOLD ON. Don't even dare to put words in my mouth because it's something I won't let you do so stop right there. I don't condone any kind of violence against anybody no matter what your race, nationality, skin colour, religion, etc. is. No one had the right to lay a finger at that woman, not even if she would have been arrogant or rude. I do believe that even in that case they could taken the higher road. Now, we are talking about other situations that involve political views and how they should be approched. Nothing else.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:19 PM

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:19 PM

Because half the US agrees with him

What the hell are you talking about? Bono criticizes the U.S. but makes his money here.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:19 PM

I dont agree with that at all

Yeah, ok.. where are you from?

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:20 PM

What the hell are you talking about? Bono criticizes the U.S. but makes his money here.

Yeah, people agree with him in the US, I agree with the celebs that bash the US, i'm from here too, I agree with none of this crap bush talks about.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:21 PM

Yeah, ok.. where are you from?

Im from the US

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:21 PM

HOLD ON. Don't even dare to put words in my mouth because it's something I won't let you do so stop right there. I don't condone any kind of violence against anybody no matter what your race, nationality, skin colour, religion, etc. is. No one had the right to lay a finger at that woman, not even if she would have been arrogant or rude. I do believe that even in that case they could taken the higher road. Now, we are talking about other situations that involved political views and how they should be approched. Nothing else.

Cut the orders because they don't hold any water. I didn't put words in your mouth. You got the point of the article wrong and I steered you onto the right path.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:22 PM

How can you bash your own country? I love my country it is sad to see it falling apart. Plus Bush is just a puppet.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:22 PM

What the hell are you talking about? Bono criticizes the U.S. but makes his money here.
Because the Americans who agree with him obviously buy his records and concert tickets to show support.

StarGlitter7609

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:23 PM

That's a stupid question. Tell me, how do Americans treat people from other countries?

Well I can tell ya that a lot of Americans sure don't have great opinions of people from the Middle East. Or remember our huge backlash against the French a couple of years ago? It's a two way street.

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:23 PM

Then tell me what happens to EVERYONE who happens to look a little Middle-Eastern or just foreign for that matter in airports (or places similiar) within the United States. Security or not, it's still the same humiliating and discriminating treatment!

What country are you from? Because you really have no clue. Security is higher for everyone in the U.S. since 9/11 and rightfully so. And I am not present at every single airport for every single check, so I can't even begin to describe what happens to EVERY person of Arab descent. So for you to assume that you can is just stupid.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:24 PM

How can you bash your own country? I love my country it is sad to see it falling apart. Plus Bush is just a puppet.

And that's the difference between smart people who can disagree with our President, yet still appreciate our country, and people who disagree with Bush, and are anti-nationalist.

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:25 PM

Because the Americans who agree with him obviously buy his records and concert tickets to show support.

And the taxes taken out from that go to the government and help by military equipment for the war in Iraq. So he criticizes the cause but is helping fund it by being a part of the U.S. economy.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:25 PM

Cut the orders because they don't hold any water. I didn't put words in your mouth. You got the point of the article wrong and I steered you onto the right path.

I know that. It's the last sentnce what put me off. I didn't justify anything so please.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:25 PM

How can you bash your own country? I love my country it is sad to see it falling apart. Plus Bush is just a puppet.

Because its falling apart, its sad, I feel like its going back to the 50s with the republicans running everything. They are just really stupid.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:26 PM

Because its falling apart, its sad, I feel like its going back to the 50s with the republicans running everything. They are just really stupid.

Thank you for grouping all Republicans together.

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:26 PM

Well I can tell ya that a lot of Americans sure don't have great opinions of people from the Middle East. Or remember our huge backlash against the French a couple of years ago? It's a two way street.

Oh please. Americans hate the French more than Middle Eastern people. The only people Americans hate more than the French are terrorists. Apparently you don't separate terrorist from Middle Eastern; you talk as if they're one in the same. So you're the one with the problem.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:27 PM

And that's the difference between smart people who can disagree with our President, yet still appreciate our country, and people who disagree with Bush, and are anti-nationalist.

I do believe that nationalism does not do any good to any country.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:27 PM

Well I can tell ya that a lot of Americans sure don't have great opinions of people from the Middle East. Or remember our huge backlash against the French a couple of years ago? It's a two way street.
My best friend is Muslum and I was mad when my dad was joking about the french. I love their language and am taking a class on their history.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:27 PM

And that's the difference between smart people who can disagree with our President, yet still appreciate our country, and people who disagree with Bush, and are anti-nationalist.
So I'm stupid because I dont like the way this country is going?

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:27 PM

I didn't say that.. lol

But, you did call all republicans stupid.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:27 PM

How can you bash your own country? I love my country it is sad to see it falling apart. Plus Bush is just a puppet.
For a democracy to stay a democracy people need to speak up about the things that are going wrong and the things they feel their leader is doing wrong. Democracy means power of the people. Not power of the leader.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM

Thank you for grouping all Republicans together.

LOL Ok, are you republican?

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:28 PM

I think that half the republicians dont even support bush anymore.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:29 PM

I didn't say that.. lol

But, you did call all republicans stupid.

yes I did

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:29 PM

LOL Ok, are you republican?

Yes. Your point?

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:30 PM

For a democracy to stay a democracy people need to speak up about the things that are going wrong and the things they feel their leader is doing wrong. Democracy means power of the people. Not power of the leader.
I wouldnt even know where to start with that. My whole family has felt the reprocussions of Bush's administration. Do you think I wanted war with Iraq? I am liberal and democratic, I dont blame people who voted for him, ofcourse I feel sorry for those who still support him now, they must be blinded by his coughfabricatedreligiousbeliefscough.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:30 PM

Okay, Idunno, that level of immaturity is incurable within this thread, so i'm not going to bother with that.

StarGlitter7609

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:31 PM

Oh please. Americans hate the French more than Middle Eastern people. The only people Americans hate more than the French are terrorists. Apparently you don't separate terrorist from Middle Eastern; you talk as if they're one in the same. So you're the one with the problem.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do you really not realize that there are people in this country who look at Middle Eastern people and automatically think terrorist? And no, I'm not one of them.

The point is, it's sooo horrible that an American is treated badly in another country for being associated with the American government...yet people here in this country do the same thing to people who come from the same countries as terrorists.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:32 PM

Yes. Your point?

I'm sorry I even started a convo with you.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:32 PM

What country are you from? Because you really have no clue. Security is higher for everyone in the U.S. since 9/11 and rightfully so. And I am not present at every single airport for every single check, so I can't even begin to describe what happens to EVERY person of Arab descent. So for you to assume that you can is just stupid.
I'm from Sweden. I have been to 8 US airports (East, West, North and South).

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:32 PM

I'm sorry I even started a convo with you.

:funny: I'm sorry you're so closed-minded.

nicksbutt

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:33 PM

I lived in England for 4 years and this was before 911. It used to disturb me how much the English hated the Americans. I would get so angry with people even good friends of mine would say the most horrible things and they hadn't even been to America before.

Lauren

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:33 PM

Okay, Idunno, that level of immaturity is incurable within this thread, so i'm not going to bother with that.

It's ok, you don't have to make it out like I'm too stupid, I'm done trying to talk with you.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:34 PM

Their security measures arent that great, and I think it is absolutely terrible to discriminate against middle eastern people.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:35 PM

Their security measures arent that great, and I think it is absolutely terrible to discriminate against middle eastern people.

No offense to your or anything, but how do you know they're not helping? Has there been another terrorist attack?...

nicksbutt

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:35 PM

Actually people outside of the US do like Bush. I know people that like him.

Lauren

the problem is that people tend to generalize...noone outside the US likes Bush, and yet he was voted twice, so people are ticked off at Americans, lol, which I think is stupid...I always go by the "if you're nice to me, I'm nice to u" I would NEVER judge people like that, I might not like some americans, and I HATE their goverment,(I HATE mine too and I adore my country :p) but is not like I'd jump at any american, lol, I'm a Backstreet Fan and they're american, that says something...I must say that I KNOW that some americans do that too...like after 9/11, people see anyone that looks from the Middle East and they're already jumping on, and treated like ..when maybe is just people that actually LOVE the US and are living a good life there...is not EVERoOne in the US, obviously but it happens..I understand they're scared, but that's not reason to react like that cuz is only gonna make people hate "Americans" even more, I mean, how can you expect people to react when someone that wants to live a good life as an american is been given hell?

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:35 PM

Oh please. Americans hate the French more than Middle Eastern people. The only people Americans hate more than the French are terrorists. Apparently you don't separate terrorist from Middle Eastern; you talk as if they're one in the same. So you're the one with the problem.

I didn't think that was true, but yesterday I was in the movie theater, and they had a special about the da vinci code, and they talked about the french government and how helpful they were, and this lady sitting a few seats away from me, was like all loud and saying yeah they are real helpful. She looked like whitetrash anyway, but still, I was like um ok.

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:36 PM

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Do you really not realize that there are people in this country who look at Middle Eastern people and automatically think terrorist? And no, I'm not one of them.

The point is, it's sooo horrible that an American is treated badly in another country for being associated with the American government...yet people here in this country do the same thing to people who come from the same countries as terrorists.

It's not ridiculous. You're ridiculous. Racist people are in every country.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:37 PM

No offense to your or anything, but how do you know they're not helping? Has there been another terrorist attack?...
It is called air america, people who tell the truth.
Sure airports may be safer well not the Colorado one, but anywho the crates of things shipped in and out of harbors are not even checked at all. And the border of Cananda/Mexico and the US>

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:39 PM

I'm from Sweden. I have been to 8 US airports (East, West, North and South).

You really are clueless. If you can't see the difference between:

A. Security check screenings at airports in a time where people are taking bombs on planes, hijacking planes, and taking over planes for the purpose of crashing them.

and

B. Man in bar: "Where are you from?"
Woman: "I'm from the U.S."
Man: *punches woman*

...then you have issues.

StarGlitter7609

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:40 PM

It's not ridiculous. You're ridiculous. Racist people are in every country.

Well, duh.

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:41 PM

It is called air america, people who tell the truth.
Sure airports may be safer well not the Colorado one, but anywho the crates of things shipped in and out of harbors are not even checked at all. And the border of Cananda/Mexico and the US>

Okay, I don't know if that's true or not. It may be, I just haven't ever read that before.

There hasn't been any terrorist attacks on US soil, since... point-in-case. Someone snuck a box-cutter on-board, but have you heard of anything else, really?

emjay

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:42 PM

If europeans started pulling Americans off to the side for special checking, I don't think that'd bother ya? ;)

the percolator

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:42 PM

Well, duh.

I'm glad you agree that you're being ridiculous.

StarGlitter7609

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:44 PM

I'm glad you agree that you're ridiculous.

OMFG!1!!! YER SOOO FUNNY!11

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:45 PM

Okay, I don't know if that's true or not. It may be, I just haven't ever read that before.

There hasn't been any terrorist attacks on US soil, since... point-in-case. Someone snuck a box-cutter on-board, but have you heard of anything else, really?
The bombs in the shoe thing.
HOnestly it is sad that people hate us so much that they want to come and bomb us. Whenever I hear terrorist I dont think much of it maybe I have deluded myself to the point where I dont think it will happen again, and it could.
But at DIA my mom's friend walked in with a knife in her purse and noone even caught on.

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:49 PM

Are you talking about secruity? On the news they did a story about the philadelphia airport a few months ago, the gates were open and the news crew got in and walked around where the planes were without anyone even noticing.

SteakSauce

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:49 PM

If europeans started pulling Americans off to the side for special checking, I don't think that'd bother ya? ;)
Of course that would bother me. If the purpose of the Americans being pulled off simply for being American that is absolutely not justified.

I think some of you seem to think we agree with the article. I don't agree with their behavior, but I can understand where they are coming from!

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:51 PM

I think if americans were hijacking planes that they should be pulled outta line and searched. Same with everyone else, white, black, arab, chinese, whatever. Just focus on the problem.

ladyluna

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:52 PM

I think if americans were hijacking planes that they should be pulled outta line and searched. Same with everyone else, white, black, arab, chinese, whatever. Just focus on the problem.

Exactly! :D

StarGlitter7609

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:54 PM

...yeah but that's singling out everyone from an entire race just because of what a few people of that race did. Like insulting every American because a few Americans voted for Bush. (yeah I know, more than a few people voted for Bush but you know what I'm saying).

Idunno345

Apr 23rd, 2006, 03:55 PM

If white american women were hijacking planes, I'd go to the airport extra early, with all my information, and any extra papers and let them search everything because that would be helpful.

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 04:56 PM

America has been changing for quite some time now and not necessarily for the better. It didnt begin with Bush everyone, he simply was following in the trend. This may sound horrible to some people but I think America should just stick to America. No more helping, no more handouts, just take care of our own. We have millions of homeless, sick, and needy right here in this country. We dont need to go outside of the US to find poverty and disease. We are the first country that people turn to for aid yet we dont even take care of our own. I dont get it.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 05:07 PM

toots6674

Apr 23rd, 2006, 05:25 PM

Yes we do! The only time we ever help out is when there is something for us to gain financially. Remember when all of the genocide was going on in Africa with the warring tribes, we knew about it and did nothing until it was too late. Why? Because we had nothing to gain monetarily. America should be our first priority.

dumbblonde

Apr 23rd, 2006, 05:36 PM

OUr economy in my opinion is really suffering right now in my opinion, fundings are being cut, the rate of unemployment is way up, I cannot really point my fingers at anyone, because it is a culmation of things.

poppy

Apr 29th, 2006, 05:07 PM

What irritates me is that when we need help (ie 911), no one will help us, but you can bet when they need help during a crisis, those other countries are the first to put their hands out and ask us for our support.

eeehhhh...not really...I think even Cuba sent supplies and doctors..so did we (I'm from Uruguay) tho we can only do so much, cuz we're not a rich country, we helped anyways...maybe not EVERYONE helped, but you got help..those that didn't help, either have problems with the US or maybe they just thought that since is the GREAT allmighty United States Of America, they thought you could handle everything on your own...besides...3 buildings collapsed, there wasn't much to work with really, so there was only so much there was to do

frackdreamer

Apr 29th, 2006, 06:17 PM

Im not shocked at all..
I mean im not in favor of racism, it doesnt matter whether you're black or white, but at the moment Im not agreeing with america and I think that it's creating an image for itself.

frackdreamer

Apr 29th, 2006, 06:24 PM

eeehhhh...not really...I think even Cuba sent supplies and doctors..so did we (I'm from Uruguay) tho we can only do so much, cuz we're not a rich country, we helped anyways...maybe not EVERYONE helped, but you got help..those that didn't help, either have problems with the US or maybe they just thought that since is the GREAT allmighty United States Of America, they thought you could handle everything on your own...besides...3 buildings collapsed, there wasn't much to work with really, so there was only so much there was to do

*claps*
May I point out that we did offer out help but Bush rejected that offer, so excuse me go and talk to your own president before you go shout at us for not helping.
It annoys the heck out of me.

I mean it's not that I dont like americans, but it's just these kind of comments that make me mad. :rolleyes:

SteakSauce

Apr 29th, 2006, 06:28 PM

*claps*
May I point out that we did offer out help but Bush rejected that offer, so excuse me go and talk to your own president before you go shout at us for not helping.
It annoys the heck out of me.

I mean it's not that I dont like americans, but it's just these kind of comments that make me mad. :rolleyes:
Exactly. Most European countries did offer help and had airplanes filled with any kind of supply you'd need and lots of rescue teams all ready to go but Bush refused to accept the help. We were not allowed to help!

journalistic

Apr 29th, 2006, 08:37 PM

Nice to know you are so closed-minded you can stand someone not liking Bush.

I don't like Bush.

RoksGoldenSmile

Apr 30th, 2006, 06:33 AM

Exactly. Most European countries did offer help and had airplanes filled with any kind of supply you'd need and lots of rescue teams all ready to go but Bush refused to accept the help. We were not allowed to help!

I guess that was a pride issue

BsbBroksGirl

Apr 30th, 2006, 06:45 AM

For a democracy to stay a democracy people need to speak up about the things that are going wrong and the things they feel their leader is doing wrong. Democracy means power of the people. Not power of the leader.

This makes no sense to me. People do not have the power, they have the power to choose their leaders. Those are two totally different things. We voted, unfortunately people voted TWICE for that moron but what can you do? Us complaining about him will not get him out of office but we are speaking up, so many people have been. That still hasn't gotten him out of office because obviously people actually voted for him...for some reason beyond my comprehension.

DoubleEdgeSword

Apr 30th, 2006, 06:59 AM

George W. Bush: "I'm a uniter, not a divider."

Uh huh. I can't think of another president in my lifetime who has divided Americans so thoroughly as this one.

Just look at this thread, the thread about the National Anthem and the thread about immigration.

SteakSauce

Apr 30th, 2006, 07:08 AM

This makes no sense to me. People do not have the power, they have the power to choose their leaders. Those are two totally different things. We voted, unfortunately people voted TWICE for that moron but what can you do? Us complaining about him will not get him out of office but we are speaking up, so many people have been. That still hasn't gotten him out of office because obviously people actually voted for him...for some reason beyond my comprehension.
People HAVE the power, you see. Numerous governments or leaders have been overthrown by the power of the people. You have the power to choose your leader and you have the power to overthrow him. It's one of the fundamental rights of a democracy but most people don't use that right, and especially in America it seems as though most people don't even know about that right.

In a democracy EVERYTHING should be voted upon by the people. Not just vote for the leader, but vote for any legislation that concerns some or all citizens directly (like abortions, gay rights or like here in the European Union whether you should join the Union or take on the currency, etc). In a democracy a leader cannot and should not create a law, make something illegal or make a decision that will affect the entire nation without consulting the public first.

de·moc·ra·cy
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
A political or social unit that has such a government.
The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
Majority rule.
The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/democracy

DoubleEdgeSword

Apr 30th, 2006, 07:12 AM

SteakSauce

Apr 30th, 2006, 07:21 AM

True. The government works for us. To criticize our government officials is a patriotic duty. Our voice is our vote. And right now, the American "voice" disagrees with Bush's job performance at the rate of 68%.
Yup!

And if 68% of the American public would storm the White House - 202,942,066 people roughly - and overthrow Bush there is absolutely nothing he could do about it.

poppy

May 2nd, 2006, 12:44 PM

This makes no sense to me. People do not have the power, they have the power to choose their leaders. Those are two totally different things. We voted, unfortunately people voted TWICE for that moron but what can you do? Us complaining about him will not get him out of office but we are speaking up, so many people have been. That still hasn't gotten him out of office because obviously people actually voted for him...for some reason beyond my comprehension.

people DO have the power...back in 2003 (or 02?) Argentina changed president THREE times in less than a month cuz people got pissed, they caused so much trouble that Buenos Aires was in siege for a LONG time, so the goverment had no choice but to change president till people were satisfied enough....in the US people do not seem to have the power, but that's cuz of the people themselves, not the goverment, cuz they DO have the power, they just don't use it, cuz either they like Bush or are afraid of speaking their minds cuz of what people might say...they CAN protest against Bush and have done so, the problem is that they're minority so is not enough, he's got more supporters than non supporters sadly, and is the PEOPLE that yells at others for saying stuff about Bush...when the Dixie Chicks said something about Bush, people were FUMMING...was HE or anyone in the goverment affected by it? no, he was cool with it cuz he realizes that not everyone has to like him and has the right to say so
people HAVE the voice of oppinion after voting, sometimes they're listened, sometimes they're not, but if you gather enough amount of people against a goverment, that goverment chickens out enough (check out my signature :p)...if lets say...our president wants to ban abortions, he has to ask the people first if they agree with it, they make a referendum (I think that's the name) and the option that gets the most votes win, if people vote against banning abortions, the president has the obligation to keep abortions legal, otherwise is not democracy

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 01:04 PM

Yup!

And if 68% of the American public would storm the White House - 202,942,066 people roughly - and overthrow Bush there is absolutely nothing he could do about it.

Why are you so obsessed with the U.S. government? Do you show this much passion against the Iranian and North Korean governments?

emjay

May 2nd, 2006, 01:31 PM

Why are you so obsessed with the U.S. government? Do you show this much passion against the Iranian and North Korean governments?

I ask the same thing

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 02:04 PM

Why are you so obsessed with the U.S. government? Do you show this much passion against the Iranian and North Korean governments?
We get taught these things in school, plus people, normally, when they want to take part in a debate will research their argument.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:08 PM

We get taught these things in School, plus people, normally, when they want to take part in a debate will research their argument.

Are you saying I don't research my arguments or she doesn't?

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 02:12 PM

Are you saying I don't research my arguments or she doesn't?

I have no idea whether you reseached your argument, but I assume that you live in the US so most of your argument will be your general knowledge with some reseach on top.

I was mearly suggesting that perhaps, because she doesn't live in the US, she has researched her argument and while you might call her fact stating obsessive, it might be something she research to back up her argument.

The suggestion that she is obssesive might come accross as offensive.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:15 PM

I have no idea whether you reseached your argument, but I assume that you live in the US so most of your argument will be your general knowledge with some reseach on top.

I was mearly suggesting that perhaps, because she doesn't live in the US, she has researched her argument and while you might call her fact stating obsessive, it might be something she research to back up her argument.

The suggestion that she is obssesive might come accross as offensive.

If she doesn't want to be seen as obsessive, she should stop acting like it. There are so many governments that don't do what they're supposed to do. But people like her focus on the U.S. only, not because they don't like irresponsible governments (seeing as how she doesn't even mention Iran and North Korea) but because she's been trained to hate the U.S. That's not research. That's systematic hate.

It's not just this thread. Anyone involving the U.S., Steaksause is in it criticizing the country. So I ask her, do you protest Fidel Castro? Do you lecture Middle Eastern countries who preach suicide bombings in the name of religion? Do you get on Iran and North Korea for their constant nuke threats? Do you post about the genocide in Darfur? Nope, because you're too busy obsessing over the U.S.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 02:28 PM

If she doesn't want to be seen as obsessive, she should stop acting like it. There are so many governments that don't do what they're supposed to do. But people like her focus on the U.S. only, not because they don't like irresponsible governments (seeing as how she doesn't even mention Iran and North Korea) but because she's been trained to hate the U.S. That's not research. That's systematic hate.

Perhaps she hasn't mentioned Iran and North Korea because that's not what this topic is about.

I don't think anyone in the world could suggest that North Korea has a responsible governement (I cannot discuss Iran as I do not know enough about them).

How do you know she has been trained to hate the US? That is a geniune question, plus has she actually stated in this thread that she hates America, I haven't read it all the way through.

I think the hated towards the US is a miminal % of the worlds population, the ones that start arguments because of your country, the ones that bomb you. The problem is that this minimal % are the ones that speak the loudest.

If people really hated the US then you wouldn't of had monolpies over the world. People would boycott all things American.

Take for expamle my small town in England, 17,000 people live here, we have a Walmart (it's an Asda but owned by Walmart) and a Maccy D's. Trust me when I say that is most of the town, there is about 10 other shops (we live nearer big cities). Now if we all hated American we wouldn't shop in these stores, we would boycott them and travel an extra couple of miles to the next town with an English store. We wouldn't watch American movies or TV programs (which is about 80% of my DVD collection).

The fact that America corporations and ideals are thriving around the world speaks volumns compared to a few igonart idiots who shoot their mouths off because it is the cool thing to do.

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 02:30 PM

Why are you so obsessed with the U.S. government? Do you show this much passion against the Iranian and North Korean governments?

We are discussing America. Surely you're not suggesting that because Anna is not American that she has no right to express her opinion.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:32 PM

I didn't say those other topics had to be mentioned in this thread. I said there are plenty of governments to criticize but she only criticizes the U.S. So it's not like she is sensitive to world issues; she just likes to harp on the U.S.

And there is tons of hate for the U.S. in the world. Boycotting doesn't do anything. These people can't even boycott their own governments. If their government says use U.S. products, then they have to do that or starve. Besides, most of the people who hate the U.S. are hypocrites. They put us down but buy products that make us richer. Again, systematic and learned hatred. It doesn't make sense.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:34 PM

We are discussing America.

That's what happens when you jump into something without really reading people's posts. I said her obsession is evident in MANY threads. Not just this one.

Surely you're not suggesting that because Anna is not American that she has no right to express her opinion.

You're right. I'm not suggesting that at all. But you brought it up so maybe that's really how you feel.

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 02:36 PM

I didn't say those other topics had to be mentioned in this thread. I said there are plenty of governments to criticize but she only criticizes the U.S. So it's not like she is sensitive to world issues; she just likes to harp on the U.S.

And there is tons of hate for the U.S. in the world. Boycotting doesn't do anything. These people can't even boycott their own governments. If their government says use U.S. products, then they have to do that or starve. Besides, most of the people who hate the U.S. are hypocrites. They put us down but buy products that make us richer. Again, systematic and learned hatred. It doesn't make sense.

I have no idea if she only criticizes the US. I'm careful not to use absolutes like never and only and always, because they generally turn out to be wrong. However, I have read her post many positive things about the US. She's visited here several times.

As for the rest of it, I don't respond too well when people use the words "these people."

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 02:37 PM

You're right. I'm not suggesting that at all. But you brought it up so maybe that's really how you feel.

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:38 PM

As for the rest of it, I don't respond too well when people use the words "these people."

Guess you won't be responding.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 02:45 PM

I didn't say those other topics had to be mentioned in this thread. I said there are plenty of governments to criticize but she only criticizes the U.S. So it's not like she is sensitive to world issues; she just likes to harp on the U.S.

That is because it is a topic about the US, start one about other countries Governments, you never know she might join in on that too!

And there is tons of hate for the U.S. in the world.

And there is a ton of love too, which is why you have a thriving tourist indursy, it is just hate is louder on love

Boycotting doesn't do anything. These people can't even boycott their own governments.

What people are this then? My argument was about the UK, and yes we can overthrow our government, John Major in the early 1990's was forced in to re ellection and then voted out of power

If their government says use U.S. products, then they have to do that or starve. Besides, most of the people who hate the U.S. are hypocrites. They put us down but buy products that make us richer. Again, systematic and learned hatred. It doesn't make sense.

Unless you live in a dicatorship your government cannot tell you to only use US p[roducts, unless I have overlooked something. Can you provide me with a source for this?

Boycotting can and does work, Britain went on a 3 week petrol boycott in I think the year 2000 in protest about the rising petrol taxes, the country pretty much came to a standstill, what did the government to? Freeze the duty on petrol! The country went back to normal in days.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:52 PM

For the umpteenth time, I'm well aware of what this thread topic is about. I said her anti-Americanism is evident from her posts in several threads. What about that do you not understand?

Who cares about tourism? That doesn't negate all the hate their is. And most countries that hate the U.S. have a population who's never even left their own country or have never been to the U.S. So they don't really hate the U.S. since they know nothing about it. The hate they have has been taught to them. In Steaksauce's case, she's always on the U.S. but doesn't say a peep about other countries.

Money talks. You can elect/overthrow whoever you want but the U.S. influence is embedded in your country and others.

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 02:57 PM

For the umpteenth time, I'm well aware of what this thread topic is about. I said her anti-Americanism is evident from her posts in several threads. What about that do you not understand?

What makes her anti-American???Just because she is cirticizing their foreign policies?I do not think she hates Americans, she hates their GOVERNMENT.

She has every damn right to speak out against their actions whether she does it a lot of times or not...Also criticizing the U.S. foreign policies is VERY relevant to this post and that is why she is criticizing the U.S. government.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 02:59 PM

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 03:04 PM

Steaksauce and those like her were justifying an American woman getting beat up just because the people who beat her up didn't like the U.S.

Never once did I say Steaksauce can't post or speak her mind. I simply asked why she's obsessed with only U.S. policy. No matter how much you guys try to cover for her, I'm still waiting for HER to answer.
I haen't read through the whole thread but I do not think they justified it.

She is just very passionate and outspoken about being against the U.S. foreign policies. In threads in here, it is usually the U.S. that comes up.

I just do not know why you are questionning her criticizing the American government...It makes no difference whether she only criticizes the American government or other governments out there. So what if she criticizes the U.S. government a lot? Obviously, she is just very disgusted with their foreign policy issues and is passionate enough to want to speak against them.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:07 PM

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 03:10 PM

Steaksauce and those like her were justifying an American woman getting beat up just because the people who beat her up didn't like the U.S.

I've read through the entire thread, and I've not read anything Anna has posted that says she justifies anyone being beaten. In fact, in this post, she specifically says she does not justify it.

Of course that would bother me. If the purpose of the Americans being pulled off simply for being American that is absolutely not justified.

I think some of you seem to think we agree with the article. I don't agree with their behavior, but I can understand where they are coming from!

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:10 PM

Never once did I say Steaksauce can't post or speak her mind. I simply asked why she's obsessed with only U.S. policy. No matter how much you guys try to cover for her, I'm still waiting for HER to answer.

YOu might be waiting around for a while, I am pretty sure she is from Europe and it is gone past 11pm in most countries over here.

Delancey

May 2nd, 2006, 03:11 PM

Never mind......lol

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:12 PM

YOu might be waiting around for a while, I am pretty sure she is from Europe and it is gone past 11pm in most countries over here.

:laugh: I know where she's from. And I don't care when the response comes.

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 03:14 PM

I simply asked her if she's passionate about the genocides/wars/suicide bombings that take place as result of the governments of other countries. Why do you have a problem with that?

Some of you said you're not even familiar with these other situations. Maybe that's a hint that you should stop focusing on the U.S. so much and get caught up on other current events.
I have read OTHER political topics she has posted about besides the U.S. And JUST because you haven't read any from her talking about those issues you mentioned, who told you it means she doesn't care about them?

Look at the topic thread you are in, maybe that is why she is criticizing the U.S. government. To me, it just seems like you are pissed off that she criticizes the U.S. government in general which gets on your last nerves.

Your point is just absurd. It is like someone who is very much for the cause for AIDS and works for their organizations, and then someone comes barging in and saying why the hell do you only care about the AIDS cause and what about Breast Cancer, Leukemia, Multiple Scelerosis,etc...???

Some people are just more passionate or get more angry against one cause or issue or topic which does not mean they do not care about other issues.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:16 PM

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:17 PM

:laugh: I know where she's from. And I don't care when the response comes.

fine, I was just letting you know

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:17 PM

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:19 PM

Stop being so patronising you named two counties, you didn't specify particular issues about them? For all I knew you could of been talking about the comminusim that is in NK, you could of been talking about the nuclear programme in Iran.

I didn't name counties, I named countries. And I specifically said the Iran/North Korea nuke issues so I was specific. Just because you didn't read the full post...

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:19 PM

This thread has gone way off topic, can we stop talking about this girl until she comes back her to defend her self. Lets stop talking about other countries, and get back to the topic.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:19 PM

I didn't name counties, I named countries. And I specifically said the Iran/North Korea nuke issues so I was specific. Just because you didn't read the full post...

Well done for picking up my spelling error, I shall retract all arguments I have made because I cannot spell.

You are a winner!

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 03:20 PM

Your point is just absurd. It is like someone who is very much for the cause for AIDS and works for their organizations, and then someone comes barging in and saying why the hell do you only care about the AIDS cause and what about Breast Cancer, Leukemia, Multiple Scelerosis,etc...???

It's a logical fallacy called "red herring" or "smoke screen." It is diverting attention from an argument by introducing another topic that seems to have relevance but really doesn't.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:20 PM

This thread has gone way off topic, can we stop talking about this girl until she comes back her to defend her self. Lets stop talking about other countries, and get back to the topic.

This thread has been off-topic. The subject is an American woman who was beat up by the British. When is the last time one of your posts was directly about that?

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 03:22 PM

All U.S. foreign policies aren't bad. i have had my bads with the peroculator ( did I spell that right?) but in a way I see her point. Many Europeans criticize America for no valid reason. They only see things in black and white. I lived in Europe and sometimes I heard ignorant comments like, "Saddam Hussein is not the criminal, Bush is," etc...Europe needs to wake up and see the many good things America does for the world. :)
YOU see it that way...others do not. There needs to be respect from both sides about where each one stands.

I am one of those that is VERY VERY much against U.S. foreign policies, in which things they have done are on the same level of all those other dictatorship, corrupt regimes out there. I see the U.S. government no different than that. I am also talking about ever since U.S. foreign policies since post World-War II.

You might see Bush invading Iraq as freedom and as good for the world, but others see it differently. Others might see it as an invasion, occupation, killings and a brutal war which just added to the world one of the most vicious wars in our present time.

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:22 PM

This thread has been off-topic. The subject is an American woman who was beat up by the British. When is the last time one of your posts was directly about that?

I know thats why I was trying to get it back on topic.

I think it was by a British person, not the British as a whole. What do I think of that? The person is a dickhead and should be arrested and made accountable.

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 03:23 PM

This thread has been off-topic. The subject is an American woman who was beat up by the British. When is the last time one of your posts was directly about that?

Perhaps you missed mine on the last page. You accused Anna of justifying the American being beaten. I countered with one of Anna's posts that refudiated your charge. Here was the post in case you did miss it:

Originally Posted by the percolator
Steaksauce and those like her were justifying an American woman getting beat up just because the people who beat her up didn't like the U.S.

I've read through the entire thread, and I've not read anything Anna has posted that says she justifies anyone being beaten. In fact, in this post, she specifically says she does not justify it.

Quote from SteakSauce
Of course that would bother me. If the purpose of the Americans being pulled off simply for being American that is absolutely not justified.

I think some of you seem to think we agree with the article. I don't agree with their behavior, but I can understand where they are coming from!

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:24 PM

I know thats why I was trying to get it back on topic.

I think it was by a British person, not the British as a whole. What do I think of that? The person is a dickhead and should be arrested and made accountable.

And if you want the girl to stop being mentioned, you can stop mentioning her.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:27 PM

I ask the same thing

Her answer should be creative.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:28 PM

And if you want the girl to stop being mentioned, you can stop mentioning her.

I didn't in that post, so why quote it?

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 03:29 PM

You don't even know what you're talking about. You say that I just don't like people badmouthing U.S policy. That's a load of bull. I'm a liberal, anti-Bush, anti-Iraq war. So don't give me that crap.

She's obsessed with the U.S. That's not healthy. She doesn't even live here.
Then what is bothering you about her speaking out her mind about the U.S. government?Even if she does it a lot????

She is not obsessed more than you are obsessed about why she is criticizing the U.S. and not other issues as you claim which is irrelevant to these arguments in here. And how is it healthy for you to pick on her for your completely absurd reason?

She doesn't have to live in the U.S. to criticize their government.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:30 PM

I didn't in that post, so why quote it?

You were mentioning her as much as I did, then you suddenly say to stop. I was saying "You first."

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 03:31 PM

Perhaps you missed mine on the last page. You accused Anna of justifying the American being beaten. I countered with one of Anna's posts that refudiated your charge. Here was the post in case you did miss it:

[/I]

I've read through the entire thread, and I've not read anything Anna has posted that says she justifies anyone being beaten. In fact, in this post, she specifically says she does not justify it.

Yup, I noticed that too.

Where the heck did she go to accusing Anna of justifying the woman being beat???

Yup, again...twisting words and even bringing up absurd comments just to pick on Anna because they cannot bring up valid points to counter-reply her arguments. That is the tactic of weak debaters.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:31 PM

Then what is bothering you about her speaking out her mind about the U.S. government?Even if she does it a lot????

She is not obsessed more than you are obsessed about why she is criticizing the U.S. and not other issues as you claim which is irrelevant to these arguments in here. And how is it healthy for you to pick on her for your completely absurd reason?

She doesn't have to live in the U.S. to criticize their government.

I want to know why she's obsessed with this country. I'm not picking on her; it's a simple question. And I didn't say you can't criticize a country you don't live in. You're twisting my words (signs of a weak debater). I said it's unhealthy to have this obsession for a country you don't even live in.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:32 PM

You were mentioning her as much as I did, then you suddenly say to stop. I was saying "You first."

and I had which is why I made my post on topic, there for that was a pointless comment.

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 03:33 PM

She's obsessed with the U.S. That's not healthy. She doesn't even live here.

First, I reject your premise that she is "obsessed." You've shown me nothing that proves that assumption.

Second, a few pages back I asked you if you were suggesting that she shouldn't express her opinion because she wasn't a US citizen, and you replied, "I'm not suggesting that at all."

So which is it?

Delancey

May 2nd, 2006, 03:33 PM

YOU see it that way...others do not. There needs to be respect from both sides about where each one stands.

I am one of those that is VERY VERY much against U.S. foreign policies, in which things they have done are on the same level of all those other dictatorship, corrupt regimes out there. I see the U.S. government no different than that. I am also talking about ever since U.S. foreign policies since post World-War II.

You might see Bush invading Iraq as freedom and as good for the world, but others see it differently. Others might see it as an invasion, occupation, killings and a brutal war which just added to the world one of the most vicious wars in our present time.

One person's freedom fighter is another person's terrorist.
I am actually against the Bush administration and the Iraqi war. I don't really believe in fighting for peace. Sometimes it is needed but definitely not in this case. The Iraqi war is creating terror in the sense that it is giving islam fundamentalists a reason to murder innocent people.
My point is that all America's foreign policies aren't negative. There are bad ones like there are good ones.
You criticize America but Palestina in not exactly innocent either. Attacking Lebanon and murdering thousands of innocent children and women just to invade land that borders to Israel. Or how about all the suicide bombers who murder innocent Israelis? You can criticize America as much as you want though:)

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:34 PM

and I had which is why I made my post on topic, there for that was a pointless comment.

It wasn't pointless. It's just something you didn't want to hear.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:34 PM

ok I am not going mad, I only mentioned her a few times, the other posts were counter arguing your points about her ... which isn't talking about her, picking the flaws in your argument, but not about her.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:36 PM

It wasn't pointless. It's just something you didn't want to hear.

LOL why did I not want to hear that? I haven't been talking about her. I had stopped.

DoubleEdgeSword

May 2nd, 2006, 03:48 PM

I'm satisfied to let it go.

The first accusation that the percolator made: Anna justified the beating of an American, has been proven false.

The second accusation: Anna is obsessed with criticizing America has no merit, as there has been no proof offered.

The third argument: Does Anna have the right to speak out against America even though she isn't a citizen has produced two opposite responses, so there's no merit there.

The fourth argument: Bringing in other countries is just a red herring fallacy, and particularly invalid as this thread is about America.

loopylou

May 2nd, 2006, 03:51 PM

I'm off, I was hoping for a good debate, but my questions were ignored and the focus was on some poor poster who has been singled out.

Delancey

May 2nd, 2006, 03:54 PM

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:57 PM

DoubleEdgesord apparently isn't aware of the fact that I've ignored her. So she's taken that to mean that I have no points. Let's let her enjoy her false victory.

For those of you interested in the truth:

1. Steaksauce was indeed justifying it. She was saying that it's wrong but she understands because of how the U.S. supposedly treats people and because of Bush's decisions.

2. Steaksauce does have an issue with the U.S. I'm not the only one who's noticed. Read the post.

3. I NEVER said you can't criticize a country you don't live in. Doubleedgesord is trying to say I did say that, and that's a lie. So doubleedgesord is a "weak debater" since she must make things up.

4. Bringing up other current events is not invalid. The point is that Steaksauce focuses so much on the U.S. and doesn't bother to discuss other issues. Some people in here admitted to not knowing about other huge issues that are going on in the world. If you have a problem when the U.S. government does something, why aren't you as passionate when the government of another country does the exact some thing? The answer is because it's not about the issue, it's about the country. You have an issue with the country. That's unhealthy.

the percolator

May 2nd, 2006, 03:58 PM

I'm off, I was hoping for a good debate, but my questions were ignored and the focus was on some poor poster who has been singled out.

I answered all your questions. Just because you didn't like the answers...

And you've made as many posts about Steaksauce as anyone else. You then made a proposal to stop mentioning her, but here you go again. Make up your mind.

PalestinianPride

May 2nd, 2006, 04:00 PM

I am actually against the Bush administration and the Iraqi war. I don't really believe in fighting for peace. Sometimes it is needed but definitely not in this case. The Iraqi war is creating terror in the sense that it is giving islam fundamentalists a reason to murder innocent people.
My point is that all America's foreign policies aren't negative. There are bad ones like there are good ones.
You criticize America but Palestina in not exactly innocent either. Attacking Lebanon and murdering thousands of innocent children and women just to invade land that borders to Israel. Or how about all the suicide bombers who murder innocent Israelis? You can criticize America as much as you want though:)

Well, who said I said ALL the American foreign policies are negative? But to me, their negative foreign policies overtake the positive ones.

What does Palestine have to do with this thread???Just because I am proud of MY heritage, does not mean I agree and condone the barbaric, or violent means some Palestinian militants use. If I am against the U.S. foreign policies and their violent tactics why the heck would I stand for the violence some Palestinian militants use?

The Lebanese civil war is a WHOLE other issue where ALL sides committed war crimes. Also, as the some Palestinian militants use violence, so does the Israeli side.

I condemn ALL kinds of tactics, methods and violence like suicide bombings, using missiles, apache helicopters or tanks or any other violent method used to kill intentionally and recklessly innocent civilians used by ANY government or militia or extremists or person.

My God, you people...We are speaking of the U.S. here and that is why some people are criticizing the U.S. foreign policies in here. I guess we should have to list every single other country who we disagree with their policies JUST because we criticized the U.S. in here?