Enquirer magazine on the Carters

[Eda]

Somebody posted to a few email lists I'm on that there is an article in the new Esquire magazine trashing the Carter family. Basically, it's an article about this director who works in the porno business and also does music videos (he's worked with Britney Spears and Mandy Moore - I seem to remember reading about this guy before). He's directing a video for Leslie Carter.

Does anybody have this magazine and have the article?!? I tried esquire.com but no luck.

[Edited by Eda on January 11th, 2001 at 06:16 AM]

[porkypig007]

The director is probably Gregory Dark. He used to do porn films as well. Not that i'm an expert or anything *cough* So, is enquire trashing the family because they used Gregory? ('cuz of the porn association?) Oh, and the address might work if you try nationalenquirer.com, not esquire.com :)

[Eda]

Gawd, I'm retarded... I mean ESQUIRE magazine. For some strange reason Jane Carter and the Enquirer go together in my mind. *sigh*

Supposedly the criticism is about Jane being a stage mom, that kind of thing, but I don't want to say exactly since I haven't seen the thing for myself yet.

[LovinNicksJB!]

i have NOT seen this article, but this was posted by someone at the antimandah yahoo club:

<<I just picked up an Esquire magazine at the store out of boredom and there was a mention about "The Devil & Britney" on the cover. I flipped open to it and it turned out to be an article about a music video director who used to direct famous pornos. Anyway, he has done some videos for Mandy Moore and Britney Spears and the article is written by this guy who is watching him film Leslie Carter's new video.

It's really sad what is in there -- Jane is portrayed as the typical stage mom, and Leslie is called fat by Dreamworks execs and psart of the article is spent discussing how to make her look thinner and wondering if they can 'stretch her out' through editing. At one point she even says she doesn't want to be there and asks her mom to go home.

To make matters worse, BJ is there and Jane talks her up to the video director as an actress and promises to send him her headshot. Later, the porno director guy compares BJ to some of the desperate to please actresses that he dealt with in his pornos.>>

[BsbBroksGirl]

:o

[BSB Eye Candy]

People this is ESQUIRE magazie, 'nuff said.

[BSBGeezerFan]

Eye or anyone who knows, I don't read Esquire so what does that mean?

[unobsbr4me2]

Basically it sounds like one of those "trash and dash" articles people write just to hurt people. I really don't know why so many of these writers/critics are so bloody mean...could it be envy or frustration that they are covering the entertainment industry...not IN it????? The industry is a dog-eat-dog world, as we all know, and many people are "desperate" to be successful because they know how hard it is to succeed.

[Eda]

BSB Eye Candy, I'm not sure what you mean, but I'm just curious to read the article if anybody has it. I really would rather not buy the mag if I don't have to!

[*Little*]

That porn guy sounds really unprofessional.
But I d oagree on the Jane Carter being a stage mother part of it.

I feel really sorry for Leslie if those ppl really called her fat. Especially if they said it to her face. She isn't skinny, but come on - nobody's perfect.

[BSB Eye Candy]

Geeze and Eda, as far as I am concerned, Esquire is MORE than a little racy/tabloidish/sensationalistic. Yeah just check out their site http://www.esquire.com and you tell me if you'd believe what was inside.

[Eda]

Well, I'm not saying I'd "believe" it ... I mean, I know Esquire mag is a cheesy "men's magazine" (which to me means it's about as worthy of my time as most "women's magazines" are). This is why I don't buy magazines in general unless there are pics of the Boys in them. ;) I'm just curious as to what they said.

[Julie2]

I don't really get what you mean either Eye. Esquire has been around for many, many years, and features authentic interviews with celebrities of all kinds. It's probably similar for men to what Cosmo is for women. Not every "bad" or negative article relating to BSB or someone close to them can be disregarded. Some are bound to be true. I doubt the interviewer at Esquire even had a clue who Jane, BJ, or Leslie Carter were before he landed on the set of Leslie's video to interview the director.

[BSB Eye Candy]

Julie, you don't have to call me "Eye". you know my name LOL! anyway, I didn't mean that the content of the article was untrue or whatever, I meant more that a mag like Esquire is not going to concern itself with shedding positive light on a pop family. That mag is more concerned with pleasing men by its cover and to women who care more about how they look then what they think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the impression me, and people I know, have of it. So it's not just me. I mean, it's not worth getting all worked up about and putting that much weight into what this article says, because it's not the focus of the magazine. As far as I'm concerned, I have not found one magazine for sale on the stands (at least in the US) that is totally factual. People, Time, EW, those are all opinionated magazines that are spoken out against all the time by subjects written about in their magazines, yet people put real worth into what they say. If anything, I would say Esquire is less valid than any of those! I wouldn't judge the Carters, Leslie, BJ, or Jane on this article. that's all I'm saying. It saddens me how much faith people put into the written word. My real opinion is that none of us should be so concerned about the whole family, but if some people are going to be, they might as well get real facts not a sensationalized article about a porn movie director who happens to do music videos for underage teen pop-princesses on the side.

Far be it from me to judge, but someone's third-hand views on what Jane is doing and what Dreamworks says about Leslie don't make me want to go dislike Jane, although I am not willing to let her tick me off, and I never have. Some people here obviously have a "beef" with Jane, and that's for whatever reason. But Just because a subjective columnist says he (she?) saw things, doesn't mean that's the way they really were. So before people go around saying poor Leslie is being called fat, and before people accuse BJ of being pawned off to a porn director by her own mother, I think people should be sure of the facts, and unfortunately those are only inside the heads of the Carters, something none of us are privy to.

This unending quest for inside information sickens me quite frankly. I guess for some people the music isn't enough? I'll say right now that the best thing I ever did was read that terrible antimandah board. I'm sure there are a lot of people here that read it, but I don't care. it's sick, twisted, mean, prejudiced, and cruel. And the fact that so many people get so much joy in finding wrong in other people's lives is scary.

Call me selfish but I am more concerned about what *I* am doing tomorrow than with what the Carters are.

[Julie2]

Oops! Sorry Debs! Couldn't tell if you were traveling incognito or not! :)

[BSB Eye Candy]

lol no problem Julie. well I figure since my site name is my username here it's easy enough to find my name. Plus I don't say anything here that I don't want people to know I said it. I'm just honest and speak my mind, and if that pisses people off, then oh well! :)

Almost totally unrelated, i'd like to add that "Esquire" is the name of a rather large and well-known strip club near me. Make of that what you want

[Edited by BSB Eye Candy on January 11th, 2001 at 02:23 PM]

[Julie2]

Quote<<Almost totally unrelated, i'd like to add that "Esquire" is the name of a rather large and well-known strip club near me. Make of that what you want>>

Yeah, but when one of my friends became an attorney, she also had the term put after her name on her business cards. LOL!

[BSBGeezerFan]

Julie2, your friend did that because "Esquire" is a term used to indicate that you are an attorney. Unless I'm wrong, the word came from the Middle English word for sword sheath and was a title of courtesy to indicate a land owner. In chivalry, an esquire was the attendant to a knight taking care of his possessions and him when necessary.

Anyway, I just read the article and I found it deeply disturbing. It's not really about the Carters except as fodder. It's talking about Gregory Dark, the Like, Wow video director and how he does what he does. He used to be a porn director who made widely acclaimed porn movies. The reason that he was so successful was (and I don't know if it was that he used evil or he is in fact evil) that he appealed to the pride and vanity of his willing victims (and I stand by the use of the term "victim") to strip away the humanity, dignity and whatever innocence they had and get them to do the nasty, degrading and humiliating things he could get them to do.
The bad part is that the author paints the picture that nothing has changed now that he has switched over to making music videos. He appealed to the vanity, pride and I don't really mean greed but I don't know what else to call it in Jane Carter for her little girl to be successful in this and in doing so they are treating Leslie attitude-wise no differently than they would have had this been a porn shoot. Because they don't feel that Leslie as herself (and she's pretty and sweet and wholesome just like she is) will "sell" what they want, they make brutal, humiliating assessments of her and "change" what they want and in the process, Leslie gets the message that she's not all right just like she is. Gregory Dark should burn in hell not for the pornographic bent of his former work but for the damage that he does to peoples' souls. It's not what he does to their bodies, it's what he does to their spirits. And don't misunderstand me, these people make the choice to do what he wants but that does not excuse him. He said that he recognized in BJ the same things that used to push his buttons about his porn stars and as a result he had to keep away from her during the shoot because he was attracted to her fresh, young aura.
If you never listen to anything else I ever say, please listen now. You ALWAYS are in serious trouble when you make deals with evil. Gregory Dark now wants to be "normal" and have a family and all that good stuff but you can see in him that he's made so many deals with evil that it's almost too late.
And too this is about how pornography and the making of girl pop videos are just opposite sides of the same coin.
And another thing. I now have the answer to something about the Boys. And the article says it. Damaged. They can't be any other way because that's the nature of the business. It's not about you, it's never about you. It's about the marketing of a product, an image. And you have to surrender some of your humanity, some of your personal integrity every time in order to chase your dream. No wonder they over-indulge in whatever. No wonder they can't cry. No wonder they need help. No wonder Brian looks hunted.
This was one of the most amazing articles I've read in a while and the writer was dead on.

[nicky lvr]

Here's the link:

http://www.geocities.com/nicky_lvr/esquire/

[Suej+AJ+Kev]

Welcome to LD, "B"

Sue J.

[BSB Eye Candy]

Sue that's EXACTLY What I was thinking. *muahhhahhahha* I've told her about this place many-a-time as I am sure you have too ;)

[cloud9]

Wow Geeze! You never cease to amaze me with your insightful thinking and ability to put into words what so many of us think and feel but can't express so eloquently! I happen to agree with your assessment of the article after having read it myself, and I believe the writer was brilliant in the way her portrayed Mr. Dark. It's true, this guy basically preys on young girls vulnerabilities, whether it be in the "accepted" format of music videos or his notorious previous career. But the blame isn't solely on him in this instance - the label and management people were really the ones asking him to re-configure Leslie's image for that particular video, and in doing so that makes them no better than he. And I agree that the boys have probably experienced something similar in the name of the all mighty buck. Hopefully they all have something to hold on to, to keep them grounded and real.

Peace

[nicky lvr]

Thanks, guys! *waves hello* :-)

I know I'm new and I should take it easy but I have to comment on this issue.

I, unlike Debra, do not like Jane. It's not because of what I've heard people say but because of what I observed. There was a reason Nick stopped talking to his mom and it ain't 'cause she didn't want to make him his favorite meal. He didn't talk to her because of how she pressured him. I'm sure she kept talking about all the things Nick needed to do to help his siblings make it into the business. Or maybe she needed to pay for another diamond ring and wanted to put out "Heart & Soul Part II: Do As Jane Says Or She Goes To The Enquirer". It's true that Nick couldn't become "famous" without Jane as early in life as he did, but I'm pretty sure he would have gotten there at some point. The same goes for Aaron. I mean, what other 8 year-old kid do you know that did what Aaron did at his age? I personally don't find it to be healthy (mentally). Now she is trying to get Leslie's and BJ's careers going. I don't know ANYTHING about BJ, but I do know that Leslie does not look thrilled to do this. Unfortunately, I feel that it is Jane's pushing that got Leslie where she DOESN'T really want to be (or maybe she is not ready?)

Anyways, sorry to start off my career on this board on this note LOL

Lets just hope that when we watch "Where Are They Now" we don't end up with the 5 Carter children blaming their mother for all of their woes. That would be just too sad.

bianca

[BSBGeezerFan]

Hello, nicky l, welcome aboard, and I agree for the most part.

Believe it or not I was just considering another Jane topic. Someone said at some point in the Nick's religion topic that Heart and Soul said they were Catholic and so I went to the bookstore and re-read most of it to research that. I'm pretty sure she doesn't even mention religion in there and the only religious thing in there is the tone of the book and the tone she uses when she talks about Nick. It always struck me as kinda high priestess-y and worshipful. Gave me the heebie-jeebies, I can tell you. And I remember going toe to toe, albeit politely, with someone on here late one night a long time ago because I was comparing her to whatever species it is that eats its young. We finally agreed to disagree.
And ratting Nick out to the Enquirer, I don't care how mad she was at him, is indefensible, disgusting, horrifying and just plain tacky and tasteless.
And I agree that she will not win Mom of The Year because where she thinks she is ensuring her children's success, she is neglecting what is BEST for them emotionally for the most part. My assistant pastor said it best at Bible study last night. Love is acting in and putting someone else's BEST INTERESTS FIRST. And I can tell you that Leslie's best interests will not be served by destroying what little self-confidence and positive self-image that child has (and that is true, really, of any adolescent because those things are most fragile at those ages). It's up to Mom to protect that as best she can. Further, and if this was not the case, I apologize, but I can also tell you that pushing Nick to dump the BSB was not in his best interests because despite his undeniable huge talent, he desperately needed the big brother-rival-comrade dynamic that the rest of the guys provided. He never felt he belonged anywhere except family but the Boys provided something vital in his security and a sense of family, even if he narrowly missed buying the farm at Kevin's hands more than once (lol). That's why at the Toronto Fan Conference Nick said that they raised him and meant it. If she wanted to mess with that, oooooooh I'll beat her up myself.
That being said, I may have to retreat from my wrath of God position with regard to her because in the article you could see that she is simply out of her league here in the clutches of the industry. That makes me feel sorry for her where I did not before because she simply has no clue and more shame her if she pushes this girl because it is clear that Leslie might want what Nick and to some extent Aaron have but it is more clear that she is unwilling, unequipped and/or unable to pay the price.

[Eda]

I agree with what you are saying, but what I keep coming back to is that Nick does only have one mom, and he will continue to try to make peace with her. I think he is in a tough position because he often seems to be trying to act in the best interests of everybody except himself.

[BSBGeezerFan]

I have hopes for Nicky though because a) they don't handle his business affairs any longer which was what he wanted and b) he's still in the group which is what he wanted.
I understand what you're saying. I don't think he needs to excatly drive a stake through her heart, I don't think she's wilfully evil, just not awake on every maternal suit. And, hey, she must have done something right. She had to do some decent early raising because he is how he is and the one thing that killed him on the road early on is that he was away from his family.

[BSBGeezerFan]

Was this that post ghost thing from I think two servers ago?

[Edited by BSBGeezerFan on February 8th, 2001 at 07:18 PM]

[Suej+AJ+Kev]

One more comment, and this assumes that you read the Esquire article.

At this point Leslie is not fitting the industry image of what a young teen singer should be, and that is unfortunate, not that she doesn't fit the image, but that they treat her like this for not meeting their expectations.

At 14, nature is not done with you yet. Some girls and boys are just about what they will be as adults on the outside but inside you are still 14. The rest of us were awkward, transitioning between kid and adult, in the middle of the process.

I'm sad for Leslie being put through this and getting a negative response. The entertainment business is all about what other people think of you - are you pretty enough, do you fit their image, do they like your voice, will you *sell*? It's all about someone investing their money into promoting your image in order to make a profit. It's not about your passion to sing, your dream to pursue your craft. It's about profit on an investment.

And that's where I fault Jane, whether she pushes or *allows*, there's something warped about tossing your child to the wolves. Sometimes the adults need to be in charge and make the unpopular decision and say NO. The fact that Nick is a marvelous success is a one in a million (ok, 2 in a million if you put Aaron in the same category, but I don't) combination of talent, years of hard work, luck and timing.

As a mother I would think she would have learned something from Nick's experiences and be more protective of those who should still be under her wing. Children need to be comfortable and confident in who they are, not worried about what an investor thinks of them. But, then, I don't see my children as commodities.

Sue J.

[mishella31]

Wow, that is just sad. I feel so sorry for that little girl. As if life isn't hard enough for a teenager.

[nickybaby]

<Further, and if this was not the case, I apologize, but I can also tell you that pushing Nick to dump the BSB was not in his best interests because despite his undeniable huge talent, he desperately needed the big brother-rival-comrade dynamic that the rest of the guys provided.>

Did Jane push him to quit in the past or or are you talking hypothetically, Geeze?

[BSBGeezerFan]

nb, that is nothing I can prove outright but if you take what he said on that MTV pre-Grammy in depth interview by (grits teeth) John Norris Nick said that he felt "at one" with what he was doing right then and so no matter what anybody said it didn't affect him. He also said that his relationship with Mandy was the scapegoat for some other things. That coupled with reading somewhere and don't ask me where (because I often find with the Boys sometimes things just hit me and a seemingly unrelated bunch of facts add up in a split second and the facts pull together but not the sources) that Jane wanted him to go solo because he wouldn't have to share revenue and/or limelight made me think that that was part of the problem.

And I qualified what I said by offering apologies if wrong but that's what it felt like to me.

[garnet5]

Okay that article was Creepy. Now if that was my daughter or my sister I would pick the child up and run as far away from that man as possible. That Jane would knowingly put her innocent children in the path of such a man offer up her oldest girl child to this man ugh it gives me the willies. That is just unatural. Maybe she didnt know what he was but as a parent I would make it my duty to know who all the people who were in contact with my child are or have been. I am outraged on behalf of both Leslie and BJ. Its just creepy all around.

[Panther2000]

I can't belive that some people on this board don't belive that article. Come on people I love Nick also, & I would hate to talk bad about someone he loves. But, you have to call it as you see it. No white washing here. I for 1 do belive the article. As, other people here have said. How, in the name of God, do you let any child of yours work with this guy. I mean, she knew who he was going in. Then, to talk trash about your daughter in front of your daughter. Then, try to pimp off anohter daughter. I know that word is harsh. But, look it up in the dict. I don't know Jane personally But, going by what Nick said. You know that she is very pushy. Every parent wants their child to do well. There is a limit. & How, you do they have to be. To me she seems more of a manager than, a mother. I Just hope that all of the kids come out ok with this. I could say more. Belive me, I could say alot more. But, Like I said above. I do Love the boys, & I feel real bad trashing their family members. But, Jane kinda asks for it. This is really sad. I can't even think how nick feels about this. But, then again. most people in the music business already knows how Jane is. I think that we all can be proud of Nick when he refused to leave the group. This goes to show how much he cares for the guys & his carrer. He's not thinking about the money.But, to the people here who refuse to belive this article. Just go back & watch the Pre-Grammy tape ( Ultra Sound). & really listen to what nick is saying. What kind of mother gets mad at her child & goes to tabloids to tell her tale. Trying to make her own son look bad. Thats what kind of mother she is. Then, Ask your self why Nick said that his feelings are numb. Between the business & his family(mother), do you really need to ask. QUESTION, Where is BOB during all of this. You never hear anything about him. Jane seems to call all the shots.

[nickybaby]

Does anyone know where I can download the Ultrasound interview with Nick? I've never had a chance to see it. I've heard about it forever and read the transcript, but that's it.

Thanks for the explanation Geeze. I'm sure you are right on the subject. I was just unsure of what you meant, that's all. (Probably due to never actually seieng the interview w/Nick) :)

[Eda]

Panther:


Like I said above. I do Love the boys, & I feel real bad trashing their family members. But, Jane kinda asks for it.


Yep, this is kind of where I am too. The Enquirer article was pretty unbelievable to me ... I try hard to put myself in somebody's shoes, and the only real rationalisation I could come up with for that was that it was a desperate attempt to reach out to Nick. Ultimately, I don't think that trashing or judging people gets you anywhere, especially when you'd like to be supportive of somebody who is right in the thick of it all. I guess I should apply this principle equally to Willa, but then she is not a permanent part of Nick's life the way his family is and so she is an easier scapegoat ... hmm.

[BSBGeezerFan]

Not trashing Jane or judging her because I don't know her, judging her actions which is quite different. We all judge and evaluate people's actions every day. I'm sure Jane loves her kids to death but there are things as Mom you don't do and again that comes from what I know only. The way I see it anything or anyone messing with Nick is fair game but don't think I didn't let him have it either because he wasn't blameless in this whole Willa mess. That having been said I don't doubt that he may have said or done some things in that family brouhaha that he should not have done or said but (and I feel a cheap shot coming on) we don't know about it because with the family he kept his mouth shut (I was so proud of him on Ultrasound (couldn't think of the name eariler) because no matter how much John Norris prodded he would not do to Jane what she did to him) and I admire the stew out of him for that.

[Edited by BSBGeezerFan on February 9th, 2001 at 06:49 AM]

[Eda]

Yep... I completely agree with you, Geeze. I am amazed by the inner strength that boy has.

[Panther2000]

He did let you know what it was about (I think). He said, that he wanted his parents ( Mother ) out of his business. When, he goes home for a visit. He wants to chill. Not talk about the business. But, to me thats mainly what she wants to discuss. He is an adult. He doesn't need mommy holding his hands. & everyone, who has come in contact with her on the business end. Always says, the same thing. That she is Grade A Stage mother. But, The topic was about the Article regarding Leslie. & again, jane doesn't shine to brightly here either. To me it sounds like she is dowing one daughter ( but not meaning to) & Peddling another. There is a word for that but, I won't say it.