Florida and California Halt Executions

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Executions halted in 2 states after botched injection
POSTED: 10:34 p.m. EST, December 15, 2006

OCALA, Florida (AP) -- Gov. Jeb Bush suspended executions in Florida after a medical examiner said Friday that prison officials botched the insertion of the needles when a convicted killer was put to death earlier this week.

Separately, a federal judge in California imposed a moratorium on executions in the nation's most populous state, declaring that the state's method of lethal injection runs the risk of violating the constitutional ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

U.S. District Judge Jeremy Fogel ruled in San Jose that California's "implementation of lethal injection is broken." But he said: "It can be fixed."

Fogel said the case raised the question of whether a three-drug cocktail administered by the San Quentin State Prison is so painful that it "offends" the Eighth Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

Fogel said he was compelled "to answer that question in the affirmative."

California has been under a capital punishment moratorium since February, when Fogel called off the execution of rapist and murderer Michael Morales amid concerns that condemned inmates might suffer excruciating deaths.

Fogel found substantial evidence that the last six men executed at San Quentin might have been conscious and still breathing when lethal drugs were administered.

He ordered anesthesiologists to be on hand, or demanded that a licensed medical professional inject a large, fatal dose of a sedative instead of the additional paralyzing agent and heart-stopping drugs that are normally used. But no medical professional was willing to participate.

In Florida, medical examiner Dr. William Hamilton said Wednesday's execution of Angel Nieves Diaz took 34 minutes -- twice as long as usual -- and required a rare second dose of lethal chemicals because the needles were inserted clear through his veins and into the flesh in his arms. The chemicals are supposed to go into the veins.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/12/15/diaz.execution.ap/index.html

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Major screw up in Florida. The IV infiltrated, which meant all those drugs went into the tissues. His arm was probably extremely swollen from all that stuff going into his subcutaneous tissue the first time. And instead of placing another IV site, they just gave another dose. That must have been really painful for the guy, not to mention a really ineffective way to deliver any drug.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

The latest from California: Executions Unconstitutional

In California, a federal judge rules that lethal injection, as it is currently carried out in the state, violates the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against 'cruel and unusual punishment." District Court Judge Jeremey Fogel

The judge issued his decision after extensive hearings ont California's lethal injection procedure and a visit to the execution chamber at San Quentin prison. He concluded that California's method of executing inmates is broken.

Fogel was considering a very narrow question: whether the first of three drugs used in an execution, a drug meant to knock out the inmate, is effective. Administered properly, the judge wrote, the procedure should be painless. But he found many deficiencies, including an unreliable execution team.



http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6633779

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Death is cruel and unusual punishment in my book. I'm for all states going back to no capital punishment.

[kristan]

But what about the cruel and unusal punishment of the victims. It seems we care more for the criminal than we do for the victims. I believe in the eye for an eye concept. The punishment should definitly fit the crime.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

I do not believe in state sanctioned revenge, and that's what you are advocating. As a civilized society, our humanity is measured by how we treat the most criminal and the most underpriviliged.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

I believe in the eye for an eye concept.

By the way, that concept is often misunderstood. Here is the Bible verse, and it does not advocate revenge; in fact, Jesus specifically says do not seek revenge.

Matthew 5:38: Jesus is reported as having said: "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."

[db44]

You are coming from the standpoint that Kristan is Christian, DES.

Just playing Devil's Advocate. :p

[DoubleEdgeSword]

You are coming from the standpoint that Kristan is Christian, DES.

Just playing Devil's Advocate. :p

No, I'm not. That particular phrase "eye for an eye" comes directly from the Bible, and that's why I quoted the Bible in response. You know I'm not Christian, but that doesn't mean that I haven't read the Bible, and that I don't believe that there are some really good things in that book. Jesus's stance on revenge is one of them.

I do like your pun, though. lol :p

[db44]

Yeah, not intentional, but I chuckled too after that.

Still, that line, from Matthew, wouldn't reflect on the thinking of someone who lives by the Torah. That was my point.

Happy Hannukah to all, by the way!

[DoubleEdgeSword]

True. However, the OT also told people to stone disobedient children, slavery was okie dokie, and women were property, so I'm pretty dismissive when people go cherry picking Bible verses.

[*rockstar54*]

Ghandi said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth and the whole world would soon be blind and toothless."

However, I'm not necessarily against all capital punishment. I think in some cases it can be warranted.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

But isn't it all just revenge? It certainly doesn't deter crime, that's been proven. So, if it doesn't do anything to lessen crime, then for what other reason do we put people to death other than getting the satisfaction of seeing them die. And shouldn't we be better than that? Lock them up for life, make sure they will never be a threat to society, absolutely. I'm willing to put my tax money out there to house these people much more than I'm willing to have someone's blood on my hands for the sake of revenge.

[pinky]

^^^

My thoughts exactly!

[SparkleHugs]

I do not believe in state sanctioned revenge, and that's what you are advocating. As a civilized society, our humanity is measured by how we treat the most criminal and the most underpriviliged.


I don't believe in convicted murderers in my streets, or wasting my tax dollars for their life sentences and absurd health requests (its really interesting the type of crap these people get that the average law abiding citizen wouldnt). It costs 38,000 a year to house one inmate and that is ridiculous. The jails are overcrowded with other criminals who do not deserve capital punishment, so the most violent are really low on the todoum pole of my caring, which is pretty much the non existant part of that todum pole. I want my tax money to help society, not pay for degenerates.

I think that the appeals process needs to be limited (no one needs more than a couple, after that its pretty certain nothing is going to change (with the exception of those old cases pre-dna evidence) so its an utter waste of court fees for the 5th and 6th and 10th appeal. Housing them is just too expensive, just get rid of them. If a rabbid dog attacks a child, we kill it. why not a rabbid human?

Many of these people on death row are an absolute utter waste of oxygen. Our society would not be civilized if these crimes went unpunished. and our methods are really kind in comparison to how other cultures treat their criminals.

[SparkleHugs]

I'm willing to put my tax money out there to house these people much more than I'm willing to have someone's blood on my hands for the sake of revenge.

the blood is only on your hands if you inject them.

i say its way more beneficial to society if that tax money went to education and then maybe there would be a lower crime rate in those areas where it is prevelant.

[kristan]

But isn't it all just revenge? It certainly doesn't deter crime, that's been proven. So, if it doesn't do anything to lessen crime, then for what other reason do we put people to death other than getting the satisfaction of seeing them die. And shouldn't we be better than that? Lock them up for life, make sure they will never be a threat to society, absolutely. I'm willing to put my tax money out there to house these people much more than I'm willing to have someone's blood on my hands for the sake of revenge.
Locking them up for life with my tax dollars paying for their food, their lodgings, their entertainment. Not too mention that they are so organized in the prison system that they not only control what goes on in there but also on the street. Many crimes committed on the street are ordered from gangs in the prisons. I don't believe in revenge just being fair. The victims weren't given mercy or justice and neither are thier families. Why should we have to pay for a criminal to live well, have 3 meals a day and still cause havoc on the streets. Eye for an eye to me means let the punishment fit the crime. If you murder someone you die etc

[kristan]

the blood is only on your hands if you inject them.

i say its way more beneficial to society if that tax money went to education and then maybe there would be a lower crime rate in those areas where it is prevelant.
I understand your point on education but how can we educate more than what we are doing now. Many ppl that committ crimes are some of societies least educated lower class citizens. But everyone even the lower class in America has a chance for education it's free here. Unfortunatley it's a persons home life and thier surroundings that affect how they choose to live thier lives. Not every poor person is a criminal not every uneducated person is a criminal it's the choses a few make that causes them to live in a counterproductive lifestyle. No amount of education will change that.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

I don't believe in convicted murderers in my streets, or wasting my tax dollars for their life sentences and absurd health requests (its really interesting the type of crap these people get that the average law abiding citizen wouldnt). It costs 38,000 a year to house one inmate and that is ridiculous. The jails are overcrowded with other criminals who do not deserve capital punishment, so the most violent are really low on the todoum pole of my caring, which is pretty much the non existant part of that todum pole. I want my tax money to help society, not pay for degenerates.

I think that the appeals process needs to be limited (no one needs more than a couple, after that its pretty certain nothing is going to change (with the exception of those old cases pre-dna evidence) so its an utter waste of court fees for the 5th and 6th and 10th appeal. Housing them is just too expensive, just get rid of them. If a rabbid dog attacks a child, we kill it. why not a rabbid human?

Many of these people on death row are an absolute utter waste of oxygen. Our society would not be civilized if these crimes went unpunished. and our methods are really kind in comparison to how other cultures treat their criminals.

Maybe we should set up a lottery and sell tickets. The person who wins the lottery earns the money for the 15-year housing costs of a death row inmate, but must kill the inmate with a handheld weapon -- sword, axe, knife, chainsaw, whatever... We could even sell tickets to the execution, and then there's pay-per-view, of course. Blood sport. Now, that's a reality show!

[SparkleHugs]

I know plenty of people that would watch a pay per view event, its nothing I am interested in. I just dont want to fork out the money for their living costs when I can bearly afford my own. If the state is going to take my money I would much rather it go to something productive, and I dont see how paying for Scott Peterson's underware is producing anything valuable.

I think that most people who are against the death penalty are those who have never been personally violated by the people sitting in prison watching cable television.

I think its completely absurd that Charles Manson can get a root canal for free when I cannot get one even with my dental insurance. How is that for fair? maybe if i go stab a pregnant lady 19 times in her stomach ill get my dental work done.

I don't really see why I, a law abiding citizen, should really care for those who refuse to abide by the law . If you violate the law then why should we treat them as equals within our society? we all know right from wrong, and when people want to purposely want to comit evil acts, why should anyone give a damn about them? Its one of the benefits of doing the right thing.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

If you violate the law then why should we treat them as equals within our society? we all know right from wrong, and when people want to purposely want to comit evil acts, why should anyone give a damn about them? Its one of the benefits of doing the right thing.

We don't treat them as equals. We put them in jail. That's our system of justice. We pay to house them. That's the price we pay for living in a civilized society. Our very humanity is measured by how we treat the least of us, and that includes our criminals.

I don't believe our system of justice has to include killing. That's not the right thing to do.

[SparkleHugs]

We live in a civilized society, and when you refuse to act civilly then you are no longer living under the Social Contract, therefore we should not treat you as though you are.

I right thing to do is not to let the American citizens work hard to let someone else sit around all day and lift weights and have cable television.

You have not explained why I should care about these people? What is so redeeming about them? Look at the things they have done...why do they deserve the privlege of living for free? Do you know how many people will do something wrong just go get 3 meals a day or some dental work? Why do these prisoners get priority for organ transplants? Why should we care about these people that much when they kill and rape our families? Why are worth even the dime that falls from my pocket? It's an utter waste.

[pinky]

Do you know how many people will do something wrong just go get 3 meals a day or some dental work?
No, and neither do you. Frankly, I think that statement is absurd.

I can certainly see not putting convicted criminals on waiting lists for organ transplants. But basic medical care is fine with me.

Not all violent crimes involve DNA evidence; therefore, the possibility will always exist for innocent people to be executed. How can you reconcile that with claims of wanting justice for the innocent victims? ONE innocent person executed is one too many.

[SparkleHugs]

It really isnt. my uber alcoholic Uncle would comit petty crimes just to get off the streets and get 3 squares a day. Before my mom met my step dad he spent 3 months in jail for a drug charge, he knew people who did that because that was the circle of people he hung out with. it happens, even once is once too many.

and of course basic medical care is fine with you, because you can get that yourself...I cannot. Charles Manson can get his prostate exam if he wants, I cannot go get my pap smear.

you're right, not all violent crimes involve DNA evidence, but what about the ones that do?? No shadow of a doubt of their crime....is it ok then? If we shouldnt punish people based on the fact that not everyone convicted is guilty of the crime, then why punish anyone??

[Katlin]

God forbid murderers suffer for like 10 seconds before dying a quick death. Oh the cruelty.