"This is the land of peace, love, justice and no mercy"

[MagicRat]

Listened to The Cleveland Agora boot today. The transition from "Racing in the Street" to "Thunder Road" sent chills down my spine even though I have heard it countless times. The energy in Bruce's voice in TR is incredible. I miss the days when Bruce was able to sing the first verse in the tempo it was recorded. Like I said - chills. It also didn't suck that TR went right into Jungleland.

[estband]

I agree, MR. Of all the legendary Darkness shows, for me Cleveland has the definitive trifecta of "Prove It", "Racing" and "TR". Sublime.

[BronxDarren]

... I miss the days when Bruce was able to sing the first verse in the tempo it was recorded.

I'm not sure if was an inability to sing it at the right tempo, so much as a misguided musical choice. I think he's screwed around with the tempo of Thunder Road on the Renuion and Rising tours in the same way he changed the vocal phrasing at the end of Jungleland (making it more syncopated and baiscally impossible to sing along with). I thought his intent was to let the audience know that he wasn't going to give them what they wanted -- he wasn't there to perform stale versions of his golden oldies, but instead was going to reinvigorate old songs with new twists. That was misguided because the original arrangements and tempos showcased those songs in their best light....the changes did not make the songs better or recast them in a new light (like the jazzy version of The River or the rocking version of Youngstown) or the bluesy slide guitar version of BITUSA.

The $64,000 question to me is whether the band as a whole could ever play with the fire and intensity as they did at the Agora? Would it help if they ditched the girls? (yes) I would take a 2 hour and 15 minute intense show with Badlands/1oth ave freezeout, etc played at the fast tempos from the Darkness tour.

I would think the band still has that in them, but it's up to Bruce to bring it out. THAT's what Landau should be yapping to him about!

[admiralkosmos]

I'm not sure if was an inability to sing it at the right tempo, so much as a misguided musical choice. I think he's screwed around with the tempo of Thunder Road on the Renuion and Rising tours in the same way he changed the vocal phrasing at the end of Jungleland (making it more syncopated and baiscally impossible to sing along with). I thought his intent was to let the audience know that he wasn't going to give them what they wanted -- he wasn't there to perform stale versions of his golden oldies, but instead was going to reinvigorate old songs with new twists. That was misguided because the original arrangements and tempos showcased those songs in their best light....the changes did not make the songs better or recast them in a new light (like the jazzy version of The River or the rocking version of Youngstown) or the bluesy slide guitar version of BITUSA.

The $64,000 question to me is whether the band as a whole could ever play with the fire and intensity as they did at the Agora? Would it help if they ditched the girls? (yes) I would take a 2 hour and 15 minute intense show with Badlands/1oth ave freezeout, etc played at the fast tempos from the Darkness tour.

I would think the band still has that in them, but it's up to Bruce to bring it out. THAT's what Landau should be yapping to him about!

We are, ladies and gentlemen of the Sacred Trust, pining for youth.

Let him move us in his way and let us accept what is ours in this moment - for with every tour he has given us, we have received the gift of an artist raging against the dying of the light - and for all intents and purposes winning. This was what was so incredible about Seeger - not that the music was necessarily the best but that this man's fire was raging inside and pouring out for us to drink.

We will not be wholly disappointed unless the tour is scuttled if Patty's album shoots up to No. 2 and she starts "kickin' it" with Beyonce and Hova.

Just my luck the took the vomit face away....

[mhafinancial]

Just my luck the took the vomit face away....
You just didn't look hard enough.

:throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup:

[BronxDarren]

We are, ladies and gentlemen of the Sacred Trust, pining for youth.

Let him move us in his way and let us accept what is ours in this moment - for with every tour he has given us, we have received the gift of an artist raging against the dying of the light - and for all intents and purposes winning.

Assuming the new tour is similar to the Reunion and Rising Tours, won't its purpose essentially be the same as that of the Darkness shows? To put on the best rock show possible? If he's trying to "move us" in the context of a rock show, shouldn't he use all of his weapons to do? And if so, why not sharpen the band so it can be employed with its maximum potential?

I don't see it as "pining for youth" to wonder whether the band can still play at the highest level. If they can't do it I would accept that and sumpremely enjoy the music since it is still at a very high level. But I would love to know if Bruce and the band ever try to harness that fire any more. The whole band should all kick back with some beers and listen to the Agora or Piece de Resistance so they know what they have to live up to.

[HeldUp]

admiral, trying to send you a PM. Send me a PM when your box has room for one more. thanks.

[admiralkosmos]

You just didn't look hard enough.

:throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup:

Story of my life!!

Actually that's the sequal to "I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For"

Wash Me Green !!:roll: :roll: :crazy: :manson: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :throwup: :eek:

Reminds me of a juvenile story - I was at a wedding in Tuscon of a frat brother of mine - and I roomed with another frat brother for the thing. So we're out drinking and he gets back and he's Hurl Prep. He's going to the bowl about to engage in the Technicolor Yawn. What does he do? Sick to his stomach and miserable, he BEGS me "film....it....film....it....now --- I'll hold...."

This is the land of peace, love and no mercy - I filmed like crazy!! Of course, as always in life, when the opportunity is there and we seize it, it isn't an opportunity. He was just dry gulchin' - no Scorcese footage for me! All suspense and no pay off - another line for my tombstone.

[admiralkosmos]

Assuming the new tour is similar to the Reunion and Rising Tours, won't its purpose essentially be the same as that of the Darkness shows? To put on the best rock show possible? If he's trying to "move us" in the context of a rock show, shouldn't he use all of his weapons to do? And if so, why not sharpen the band so it can be employed with its maximum potential?

I don't see it as "pining for youth" to wonder whether the band can still play at the highest level. If they can't do it I would accept that and sumpremely enjoy the music since it is still at a very high level. But I would love to know if Bruce and the band ever try to harness that fire any more. The whole band should all kick back with some beers and listen to the Agora or Piece de Resistance so they know what they have to live up to.

His effort is Herculean - I remember and will never forget that encapsulated in his running across the stage for the big Clarence Crotch slide (I think that's what they call it) and the look on his face was about the most intense look of focused determination I've ever seen in anyone.

God for a will like that. A sheer will to move mountains - and asses!

Not sure what you're saying above precisely but sure, we love the band and will marvel at whatever they do - we've come to be quite accepting in a reasonable way where they're concerned - but the sheer physicality is Bruce and Max and - well that's it! lol So if they're in shape, the illusion is complete, we are fulfilled and it's $500 a ticket!

[BronxDarren]

I guess my question is, is there anyone in the band who physically can't play at the same level they did in 1978?

Or is just a question of Bruce's lack of drive in trying to get the band as good as they once were?

Despite the great shows, there were times on the past few tours when I felt that for my moneym the dragging tempos and muddy sound were problems that should have been fixed. Lots of people think it's blasphemy to criticize Bruce at all. He's created a pretty high standard for himself and it would be spectacular if he could once again achieve it. I'm pretty psyched for the next tour either way, duh.

[admiralkosmos]

admiral, trying to send you a PM. Send me a PM when your box has room for one more. thanks.
Open for business!

[HeldUp]

BD, I guess from Bruce's perspective, would you want people to think of these new shows as a something akin to the Darkness tour or as something better or something different (not SSB different) but as fulfilling and/or enjoyable as anything he has done before?

Yes, clean up the dragging tempos and extended versions of Mary's Place and make sure the sound is technologically 2007 perfect.

Knowing that he does all this for himself as well as for us, I'm betting the latter.

[BronxDarren]

BD, I guess from Bruce's perspective, would you want people to think of these new shows as a something akin to the Darkness tour or as something better or something different (not SSB different) but as fulfilling and/or enjoyable as anything he has done before?

Yes, clean up the dragging tempos and extended versions of Mary's Place and make sure the sound is technologically 2007 perfect.

Knowing that he does all this for himself as well as for us, I'm betting the latter.

I don't mean that he has to reprise the intro story to "It's My Life" or the rap in the middle of "Sad Eyyes/Backstreets" -- he is not the same 20 something dude and that would be weird. But other than new stories and the setlist, how could he really position a new ESB rock show as something THAT different than a Darkness-era show? A rock concert is a rock concert, right? And if so, shouldn't a pretty general rule be that the band should play as well as it can? I'm pretty much only looking for him to focus more on tempos and intensity, not trying to recapture the past or relive the golden years.

[JAG]

No one is the same as they were 30 years ago. It's not a matter of want-to -- it's a matter of the aging process.

But i will say, Bruce and ESB on the VFC tour (at least the show I saw in Detroit) -- ef-in awesome. as close to 70s-80s ESB power as it was going to get. Just 2 hours of kick-ass rockin.

[MagicRat]

My comment regarding Bruce not singing in the tempo of the recorded version is not a complaint of Bruce but the fans. From what I have read -Bruce changed up the tempo of the first verse because if he didn't the crowd wouldn't hear him b/c everyone is yelling the verse at the top of their lungs.

[dex]

A rock concert is a rock concert, right? And if so, shouldn't a pretty general rule be that the band should play as well as it can? I'm pretty much only looking for him to focus more on tempos and intensity, not trying to recapture the past or relive the golden years.
There's the rub. Bruce has convinced himself that playing these songs at a slower tempo makes them better, not worse. They certainly aren't playing slower because of advancing age. They don't have to run the 100 meters, they just have to move their arms and fingers to play their music.

A lot of this is about an artist's perception of his music. When Bruce thought his music was merely good, it was truly great. And now that he thinks its truly great, it's merely good. This seems to be a common misconception that aging rock stars tend to adopt. Not sure why.

Why the sound at the shows is porous, I can't really say. But it's a serious problem that should be addressed, especially with ticket prices being what they are.

[JAG]

The reason he ef-s with the tempo is that he's basically bored singing the song for the umpteenth time.

[admiralkosmos]

There's the rub. Bruce has convinced himself that playing these songs at a slower tempo makes them better, not worse. They certainly aren't playing slower because of advancing age. They don't have to run the 100 meters, they just have to move their arms and fingers to play their music.

A lot of this is about an artist's perception of his music. When Bruce thought his music was merely good, it was truly great. And now that he thinks its truly great, it's merely good. This seems to be a common misconception that aging rock stars tend to adopt. Not sure why.

Why the sound at the shows is porous, I can't really say. But it's a serious problem that should be addressed, especially with ticket prices being what they are.

Hamlet, I think that the reason they tend to self-adore if the public annoints them in adoration - it's a human frailty: believing your press. Plus don't forget Landau's likely an incredible cheerleader.

[Scorcher]

The $64,000 question to me is whether the band as a whole could ever play with the fire and intensity as they did at the Agora? I would think the band still has that in them, but it's up to Bruce to bring it out. THAT's what Landau should be yapping to him about!


I think $32,000 of the question is do we as the audience have the fire and intensity to respond to Bruce & Band as we used to?

I'm not a musician and I cannot critique the band the way musicians can, but I know when I have been moved by the music. When its right there is a mystical connection between the audience and the band and the fire and intensity is a participatory event. The last time I experieced this was the two shows where it rained at Giants Stadium during the Rising tour.

I pine for that fire and intensity of my youth when I brought living the badlands every day with me to a show and "its a town full of losers and I'm pullin' outa here to win" I could sing along with gusto thinking about the religous college that kicked me out for bad behavior. It seems in 78' Bruce was still fighting the music establishment as a lot (most) of were fighting the establishment of a prior generation. We all hated the nuns that stuffed Bruce in a garbage can and we were still growin' up.

I still hold on to that outsider looking in attitude and feeling, and I wanna be that rebel, but Hell, it doesn't change the fact that I'm a corporate attorney when I go to the shows now and "Out in the Street" doesn't mean the same when I am standing next to an executive vice president of my corp. the last time I heard "Night" and somehow workin 9 to 5 and surviving til night was not as real.

I'm not sure what the right answer is. It's hard to be a grown up rebel and when Bruce tries with either his political rants or songs like American Skin, it divides the audience it doesn't bring them together like Badlands does.

Personally, I'm going to try and stay away from the boards on this tour. I think all the bitching about set lists, stage rush strategies, GA lines, etc. took away from some of the magic for me. I think that's part of what worked for at Giants Stadium...I dropped out of the scene when the tour moved to stadiums--I was not following set lists or the boards. I went to both shows at the last minute from a ticket drop with no expecations and ended up with great memories I share with my son (then 13) standing in the rain not giving a crap because Bruce had taken us both to his place in the stars...

[ohio boss]

I was thinking about posting some deep thoughts about the Agora show on its anniversary but MagicRAt has touched something that still after all of these years STILL blows me away. I grew up near Pittsburgh not Cleveland but this show has always been my "Home Run of Home Runs." I listened it to it live courtesy of WDVE in da burgh and NEVER heard a fm broadcast that meant so much or was so consuming. It just simply mattered. You just couldn't leave the radio. That segue from Racing to Thunder Road is something that very few people in rock and roll could have pulled off because of its integrity and power and sheer will of force. And as much as some of you love to get political on here to meet your own needs(respectfully), when it comes to rock and roll, the politics of the heart will always move me 100 million times more than some guy's talking points or some party's platform. The kid who got his union card and a wedding coat was the reason he made a difference for me. Bruce was trying to dig deep with the human spirit with a vehicle and rock and roll was his metaphor. That Agora show was sung like every song would be his last....like ONE BIG MOTHEREFFIN' EXCLAMATION POINT. It's exactly the thought that Scorcher introduced....when Bruce sang Badlands back then--he willed us to believe--to live and die. The trifecta, as Estband mentions, really stands out to me as perfect moments of rock and roll and what it should be. Am i biased? Damn right...this was Bruce in his prime and he blew the roof off of the place every night but especially on this one. Most rockers never had one Agora night in them--Bruce had a whole year of them. I'll take this show, you guys can have the rest. And you know what Kid Leo said in the intro about round for round and pound for pound....it's the reason i keep coming back time and time again. I can disagree with Bruce on some of his thoughts but never on his passion because whether he's still capable or not...8/9/78 proves to me that this man was much more "divine" than most live performers whoever walked out on a stage. In fact, he's still the best ever no matter what he does in my opinion and that's in concrete.

[Waiting in Parsippany]

I am definitely pining for youth. The memories for me of the TR story are hearing it for the first time on WNEW-FM taping Capitol Theatre on my Emerson 8 Track player. I was hooked and converted that night and my friend who asked me to tape the show never got the tape. Fast forward to Nassau NYE more youth. It is the roadmap for me of my youth and for the couple of three hours of fantasy time machine ride I want it at the tempo I first learned at. Sorry hopefully I did not kill this thread but could not resist my 2 cents.

WiP

[clydesglide]

Let him move us in his way and let us accept what is ours in this moment - for with every tour he has given us, we have received the gift of an artist raging against the dying of the light - and for all intents and purposes winning. This was what was so incredible about Seeger - not that the music was necessarily the best but that this man's fire was raging inside and pouring out for us to drink.
THANK YOU for saying this...It is an excellent observation and I admire your creative writing skill.

[admiralkosmos]

Let him move us in his way and let us accept what is ours in this moment - for with every tour he has given us, we have received the gift of an artist raging against the dying of the light - and for all intents and purposes winning. This was what was so incredible about Seeger - not that the music was necessarily the best but that this man's fire was raging inside and pouring out for us to drink.
THANK YOU for saying this...It is an excellent observation and I admire your creative writing skill.

I can't thank you enough for your kindness on this silent Friday night here in the darkness of New Jersey before a rain soaked July weekend. For me, I don't think I'm an exceptional writer at all - I've just found a group of good people who connect with these meandering thoughts because we both - on either side of the screen - feel the same - deeply and passionately about music. Thanks for feeling this world with me. Rage on.