Interesting question on sports talk radio.....

[pinky]

Who will be the Pro Bowl quarterback from the NFC?

One of the guys on the show posed the question, which was followed by dead air as his partner tried to think of someone who deserves it this year.

I can't think of anyone.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Romo from Dallas is the only one worthy at this point. I can see Drew Brees playing better and making it, but I have no idea who the third will be.

[pinky]

Romo? Mr. Butterfingers? :roll:

He's overrated, and the Cowboys just made a HUGE mistake with that contract.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Romo? Mr. Butterfingers? :roll:

He's overrated, and the Cowboys just made a HUGE mistake with that contract.
I'd have to check the statistics, but I think he's putting up very good numbers. He'll have several good games and then some bad ones so I do feel they made a mistake with the contract, but he'd definitely be the starter at this point, I would think.

[Paulie]

At this point, there's only one choice:

Brett Favre.

[pinky]

I'm not so sure about that. Both Romo and Garcia have a higher rating. Garcia's completion percentage is higher than Romo's, but Butterfinger has a higher rating.

[Stopanimalabuse]

I was thinking about Favre as well, but his stats aren't overly impressive. I thought Brees was higher than he is, but even Eli has a higher rating. Romo seems to be the obvious choice at the moment, but the other two spots can be won by pretty much anyone at this point. It amazes me that Brady Quinn lasted as long as he did. NFC teams obviously need a better quarterback, so he should have been picked by one of them. Eli is still very inconsistent and the Eagles winning when Garcia came in shows how overrated McNabb is. Both teams should have sent a message to their quarterback and picked Quinn.

[pinky]

Actually, the fact that the Eagles won with Garcia was due as much to a change in the mix between pass and run as anything else. Garcia did a great job, and I wish we had kept him. However, to say that his success here last year shows McNabb to be overrated isn't accurate.

McNabb has never been a really accurate passer, but he makes things happen when he's healthy. Unfortunately for the Eagles, he hasn't been healthy much over the past few years.

[db44]

Romo though I still think of that five turnover game...

[pinky]

I look at him and think of Opie. I don't know why, he doesn't look like him.

And then, of course, there's the famous "hold" last year! :roll:

[db44]

Yeah, but that doesn't factor into the upcoming Pro Bowl.

[pinky]

No, but it still makes me laugh! :hah:

[Paulie]

I'm not so sure about that. Both Romo and Garcia have a higher rating. Garcia's completion percentage is higher than Romo's, but Butterfinger has a higher rating.

I've never been a big fan of the QB rating, mainly because it's such an arcane formula. Give me something simple to calculate, like ERA and WHIP in baseball!! LOL

Romo is a legit candidate, and one can certainly make an argument for Eli (though the defense is likely the main reason for the Giants resurgence) and Brees become more of a candidate as the Saints continue to roll.

But no one was expecting this type of season from the Pack and/or Favre. He'll get alot of "honor the retiring (maybe) legend"-type votes, and that may be enough to give him another start in the Pro Bowl. People figure Romo, Eli and Brees have alot of time left....Favre doesn't.

Paulie

[pinky]

Eli? :eek:

You're not serious, are you?

[Paulie]

Eli? :eek:

You're not serious, are you?

Hey, he's not horrendous!! LOL

Alright, I just checked his stats. Guess he's not quite as good as I thought...it really IS the defense for the Giants.

Scratch him from the list...my bad.

Paulie

[pinky]

Yes, he IS horrendous. In fact, he may be the best thing about the Eagles' season this year. :greyno:

[Stopanimalabuse]

Eli is too inconsistent, but I still think he has a shot at the Pro Bowl considering how bad his competition is. I just hope he shows up in that last game against New England.

[pinky]

New England will hand the Giants their butts, just like they're going to do to everyone except the Colts and hopefully the Steelers.

I don't like Worthlessberger or the rest of the Steelers, but I really hope Ben has a great game that day.

[Stopanimalabuse]

New England will hand the Giants their butts, just like they're going to do to everyone except the Colts and hopefully the Steelers.

I don't like Worthlessberger or the rest of the Steelers, but I really hope Ben has a great game that day.
In 1985-1986, the Celtics went 67-15 and 40-1 at home, the greatest home record ever. Who did they lose to? Portland, with a 40-42 record. Is a mediocre team(the Giants are a bit better than mediocre) capable of defeating a dominant team? It happens in every sport so, yes. Hopefully the Patriots will have the same attitude and, in a lot of cases, that can cause a team to lose. They were ahead of Cleveland by 10 points with less than a minute left and the Cowboys had a lead in the second half, so there have been 3 games already where they haven't crushed their opponents.

Back to the subject, if San Fransisco somehow catches on fire, I'd say even Alex Smith has a shot at it. The quarterbacks are just that bad.

[JoviFan]

The Pats beat the Colts yes and the Colts lost yesterday's game to hahahaha. As for the Steelers the Pats will beat them too.

[Stopanimalabuse]

As for the Steelers the Pats will beat them too.
Indians fans also said they'd defeat the Giants in 1954, and Orioles and Colts fans thought their teams would win the Championship before they were upset by the Mets and Jets. Dominant teams have lost before, and it could happen again. The Patriots aren't invincible regardless of what their fans will say.

[Stopanimalabuse]

I think you can count Eli out as of right now and McNabb as well. It's not surprising that the Eagles played better without McNabb. My older brother watched the game and he said that one of the interceptions happened because the receiver slowed down and that could have been a touchdown if he had run at full-speed. Teams always seem to find ridiculous ways to lose to New England almost like they're not trying, so I'm not surprised. McNabb was good at one time, but now he's just as over-hyped as Eli is. I still think both teams made a horrible choice by not going after Brady Quinn.

[db44]

At this point, it's one of two people: Romo or Favre, and both are worthy. I say Favre though, but granted I'm biased.

[Stopanimalabuse]

I had heard that Romo is on pace to throw more touchdowns than Peyton Manning a few years ago. Claire, you can laugh at him all you want, but he is obviously the best quarterback in the NFC at this point. Even in the AFC he'd be the second best. He is putting up a season comparable to the best season Young, Marino, and Manning had. Who knows how well he'll play in the playoffs, but he is the deserving candidate. I hear Favre has more votes for the Pro Bowl though.

[db44]

I'm in the same boat as Claire I think. I don't want to acknowledge it, but he's starting to show he's not a fluke.

Can't he hold more kicks now?

[pinky]

Can't he hold more kicks now?
From your lips (fingers?) to God's ears (eyes?), Dave!

[Stopanimalabuse]

I'm in the same boat as Claire I think. I don't want to acknowledge it, but he's starting to show he's not a fluke.

Can't he hold more kicks now?
Why do you dislike the Cowboys?

[pinky]

If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

But, you know how many people feel these days about the Patriots? Add arrogance to at least half of their players, and you'll understand how the Cowboys used to be.

[Stopanimalabuse]

If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

But, you know how many people feel these days about the Patriots? Add arrogance to at least half of their players, and you'll understand how the Cowboys used to be.
I used to be a Giants fan in the mid-1990's, and I still don't have a clue what you're talking about. They never came across that way, and the Patriots do. You can claim "America's Team", but that was more the media than the team, at least I think. Their owner is not very likeable and Owens as well, but I don't see any other reason to hate them now.

[pinky]

It wasn't the 90's, Colin. It was the late 70s and most of the 80s.

And it was bad enough that the taste still lingers.

[JoviFan]

Indians fans also said they'd defeat the Giants in 1954, and Orioles and Colts fans thought their teams would win the Championship before they were upset by the Mets and Jets. Dominant teams have lost before, and it could happen again. The Patriots aren't invincible regardless of what their fans will say.
Never said there weren't invincible i just hate the steelers. Sorry never have liked them and i live near pittsburgh. Been to all the games in the last 5 years when the Pats come to town we sit in season tickets holders seat friends of ours in our Pats gear. All in good fun everyone around us we know we all get along and they are steeler fans.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Never said there weren't invincible i just hate the steelers. Sorry never have liked them and i live near pittsburgh. Been to all the games in the last 5 years when the Pats come to town we sit in season tickets holders seat friends of ours in our Pats gear. All in good fun everyone around us we know we all get along and they are steeler fans.
If the Patriots play like they have the past two weeks Pittsburgh will bury them. Even Patriots fans are acknowledging how bad they've been.

[db44]

Unfortunately, the Steelers gave the Pats bulletin board material. I think the Pats will be p!ssed.

NEP-NYJ will be an ugly, ugly game. I think the Jets will be out to get Brady, and both teams will be playing to injure each others. Just look at the postgame stuff from Week One. I think that helped spark the Pats to where they are even now.

[JoviFan]

Told ya Pats all the way....

[pinky]

I'd love to see the Dolphins beat them.

That, or go 16-0, then lose their first playoff game.

[JoviFan]

dream on lol love my pats....

[pinky]

They were lucky to get past the Eagles.

[db44]

How 'bout the Giants Claire? :p

[pinky]

They were lucky, too. :p

Seriously, with Eli as QB, they're lucky every time they come out with a W.

[db44]

Not every time. He's Jekyll and Hyde. Although Plaxico's injury's helped make Eli look bad.

In answer to the original question, people in Atlanta apparently would still suggest Vick for the Pro Bowl. :(

[Stopanimalabuse]

Told ya Pats all the way....
Pittsburgh had two starting safeties that were injured, and I think one of the replacements(the one with the big mouth, I think) gave up two of the touchdowns. The Colts were also injured, so the Patriots' schedule has been one of the easiest that I can remember since I started watching football around 1990.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Seriously, with Eli as QB, they're lucky every time they come out with a W.
I was a Giants fan for many years when I watched the sport regularly, and I will admit he's not a good quarterback but you're exaggerating a bit. His stats are superior to his father's(whom many people consider a legend LOL), better than Terry Bradshaw's(who is considered a legend by most people), and better than many quarterbacks who have played over the last 10-15 years.

[db44]

Don't take her too seriously... She's a bitter Eagles fan. :tongue:

[pinky]

I'm not bitter. I just hate the Giants and Cowboys. That makes me loyal, not bitter.

[Stopanimalabuse]

I'm not bitter. I just hate the Giants and Cowboys. That makes me loyal, not bitter.
Considering you've gone after me for being "biased"(when obviously I wasn't), you don't have any right to complain. I've seen one person compare Eli to Bubby Brister, so you're not the only one. Eli has his good games but the bad games are what people focus on. When you look up his stats, they're not THAT bad.

[pinky]

Let's see, Eli's passer rating is 75.2, which is 12th out of 17 in the NFC. and 23rd in the NFL. That puts him behind such illustrious QBs as Brian Griese, Joey Harrington, and Donovan McNabb.

That's bad, no matter how you look at it.

And, Colin, being biased against a particular player because of comments he made, and made good on, is very different from disliking a team that has been a longstanding rival. It's part of the experience of being a loyal fan. In Philadelphia, there are several teams you just naturally dislike. Those would be the Mets, Braves, and Yankees in baseball, the Devils and Rangers in hockey, and the Giants and Cowboys in football.

That doesn't prevent me from appreciating specific players on those teams on occasion, such as Emmitt Smith or Tiki Barber, and it doesn't mean that one of the players from those teams necessarily has to say or do something to make me root against him.

And, for the record, if the Super Bowl is the Cowboys and Patriots, I probably won't watch. I'll come in for the commercials, but that's about it.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Terry Bradshaw:51.9% completion percentage, 70.9 rating. He won 4 Super Bowls, but obviously the team around him had a lot to do with that. He put up mediocre stats with a great team, so we can only imagine how much his stats would have dropped if he had been on a mediocre or good team.
Archie Manning:55.2% completion percentage, 67.1 rating. He never made the playoffs.
Joe Namath:50.1% completion percentage, 65.5 rating.
Eli Manning:55.1% completion percentage, 73.7 rating. All three have been considered "legends" by some people, so I guess Eli must be one too.

[Stopanimalabuse]

And, Colin, being biased against a particular player because of comments he made, and made good on, is very different from disliking a team that has been a longstanding rival. It's part of the experience of being a loyal fan. In Philadelphia, there are several teams you just naturally dislike. Those would be the Mets, Braves, and Yankees in baseball, the Devils and Rangers in hockey, and the Giants and Cowboys in football.
I think you're angry that I won't give Rollins much credit and you have to find a reason for people not thinking he's an MVP candidate. I tend to put a lot of emphasis on specific statistics, and Rollins fell short this season. I try to be consistent year after year, and you have no evidence that I'm being biased.

The Phillies haven't really had much of a rivalry with any of those three teams, so you can make a case that the 76ers have had more of a rivalry with the Celtics than the Phillies have had with any of those three. I don't follow hockey much, so I can't say. I'm a much bigger Celtics fan than any other team, but I have a lot of respect for the Lakers and they had a pretty big rivalry on two occasions. Dislike is more prevalent in many circumstances, but I wouldn't say it's natural. You still shouldn't be biased regardless of how you feel about a team. Wouldn't the Redskins be on there as well?

[pinky]

Nope. The Redskins have, for the most part, been a classy organization. The same can't be said for the Cowboys.

And the rivalry between Philadelphia and New York teams stems as much from the fact that people see Philly as a second class city in comparison as anything else. Around here, we get pretty sick of hearing all about New York.

As for Rollins's stats this year, he accomplished things NO ONE in the history of baseball has ever done. That has to count for something, whether or not he led in the statistics that you think are the only important ones.

[db44]

Philly's a nice little suburb, but I wouldn't want to live there. :tongue:

Actually, when I was living in NY, I was contemplating Philly jobs and I do like it down there. However, the NY dislike towards Philly fans comes from the view that they are just rowdy and annoying. I'm not just refering to the fact that they are the only stadium to have a jail in its confines, nor the Great Santa Pelting. Heck, I nearly got in a fight there, the only time in my long sports-watching life... And it was at a Manchester United exhibition! This guy decided he wanted to come down from the top seats and stand next to his friend for five minutes. When all of us started yelling at us, he was ready to take us all on. He singled out a few of us, including because I was a "faker" for wearing a Man U jersey. In reality, I follow international soccer closer than I do the NBA.

Eli p!ssed me off royally last night. Your guys aren't catching, the wind is ridiculous... RUN THE DAMN BALL! There were times he had open lanes, but he still opted to throw. Portis was rumbling around, and the Giants rushers weren't bad when they got their hands on the ball. Man, he (and Coughlin?) needs a brain.

Maybe we'll grab McNabb in the offseason. :p

[BrlDsguise]

Terry Bradshaw:51.9% completion percentage, 70.9 rating. He won 4 Super Bowls, but obviously the team around him had a lot to do with that. He put up mediocre stats with a great team, so we can only imagine how much his stats would have dropped if he had been on a mediocre or good team.
Archie Manning:55.2% completion percentage, 67.1 rating. He never made the playoffs.
Joe Namath:50.1% completion percentage, 65.5 rating.
Eli Manning:55.1% completion percentage, 73.7 rating. All three have been considered "legends" by some
people, so I guess Eli must be one too.

QB ratings are much higher now than they were 30 years ago. 19 out of the top 20 players with over 1,500 passes in all time QB rating at the beginning of the season were either active players or in the HOF (Rich Gannon is the only player on the list who was neither).

1 Steve Young* 96.81
2 Peyton Manning 94.37
3 Kurt Warner 93.77
4 Joe Montana* 92.26
5 Marc Bulger 91.26
6 Daunte Culpepper 90.75
7 Chad Pennington 89.32
8 Tom Brady 88.36
9 Drew Brees 87.54
10 Trent Green 87.48
11 Jeff Garcia 86.43
12 Dan Marino* 86.38
13 Donovan McNabb 85.19
14 Matt Hasselbeck 85.10
15 Brett Favre 85.05
16 Rich Gannon 84.71
17 Brian Griese 84.54
18 Jim Kelly* 84.39
19 Mark Brunell 84.21
20 Jake Delhomme 84.05

* - Hall of Famers

Wayne

[pinky]

Philly's a nice little suburb, but I wouldn't want to live there. :tongue:

There ya go, Colin. That explains it all.

:susp2: , Dave.

[db44]

Yeah, ignore the next few lines... :p

[Stopanimalabuse]

As for Rollins's stats this year, he accomplished things NO ONE in the history of baseball has ever done. That has to count for something, whether or not he led in the statistics that you think are the only important ones.
Once again, 30-20-20 is a completely meaningless statistic to me. He was mediocre in the statistics I consider important and he was mediocre in the clutch, so there are at least five players I would put over him. I'm just saying bias has nothing to do with it, so I would rather not talk about this subject for the tenth time.

[Stopanimalabuse]

QB ratings are much higher now than they were 30 years ago. 19 out of the top 20 players with over 1,500 passes in all time QB rating at the beginning of the season were either active players or in the HOF (Rich Gannon is the only player on the list who was neither).

1 Steve Young* 96.81
2 Peyton Manning 94.37
3 Kurt Warner 93.77
4 Joe Montana* 92.26
5 Marc Bulger 91.26
6 Daunte Culpepper 90.75
7 Chad Pennington 89.32
8 Tom Brady 88.36
9 Drew Brees 87.54
10 Trent Green 87.48
11 Jeff Garcia 86.43
12 Dan Marino* 86.38
13 Donovan McNabb 85.19
14 Matt Hasselbeck 85.10
15 Brett Favre 85.05
16 Rich Gannon 84.71
17 Brian Griese 84.54
18 Jim Kelly* 84.39
19 Mark Brunell 84.21
20 Jake Delhomme 84.05

* - Hall of Famers

Wayne
It sounds like you're trying to come up with an excuse to me. Most quarterbacks just couldn't throw back then. It's just an indication of Bradshaw, Namath, and others having inferior abilities. Bradshaw had an amazing team around him, which should only help his stats. The reality is, yes, I consider Eli just as good as Bradshaw was. It's not a statement that Eli is underrated, but more that Bradshaw is very, very overrated.

[pinky]

Yeah, ignore the next few lines... :p
I do what I have to, Dave. :nod:

[pinky]

Once again, 30-20-20 is a completely meaningless statistic to me. He was mediocre in the statistics I consider important and he was mediocre in the clutch, so there are at least five players I would put over him. I'm just saying bias has nothing to do with it, so I would rather not talk about this subject for the tenth time.
*shrugs* I didn't bring the discussion into this thread.

[pinky]

It sounds like you're trying to come up with an excuse to me. Most quarterbacks just couldn't throw back then. It's just an indication of Bradshaw, Namath, and others having inferior abilities. Bradshaw had an amazing team around him, which should only help his stats. The reality is, yes, I consider Eli just as good as Bradshaw was. It's not a statement that Eli is underrated, but more that Bradshaw is very, very overrated.
Did you actually watch any of those quarterbacks play in real time?

Bradshaw wasn't overrated, Eli is.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Did you actually watch any of those quarterbacks play in real time?

Bradshaw wasn't overrated, Eli is.
I'm confused. You use statistics to determine the MVP in baseball. Any person who has seen Bradshaw's statistics knows they were very, very mediocre, so which standards are you using? I never saw Bradshaw, but in any sport I feel that a legend has to put up even just good statistics in order to get consideration and Bradshaw isn't even close. The only thing he had going for him was his Super Bowl wins. When you play on a team like that, all the quarterback has to do is avoid making dumb mistakes and they have a very good shot at winning the Super Bowl. It was possibly the greatest defense ever, and it's not a surprise that the team went nowhere when the defense became injured or was getting old.

There are a few factors you have to consider. My older brother watches a lot of football, and he has said there is a lot more emphasis on the quarterback today than they did many decades ago. There are also more teams. You also have the factor that quarterbacks like Bart Starr and Johnny Unitas had great seasons, but also had many sub-par or awful seasons. A lot of modern quarterbacks don't have that problem. Defenders are faster today than previous years, and that's really the only difference. A quarterback today is just as likely to throw an incompletion or interception as those of the past, so Eli doesn't have any kind of an advantage. Quarterbacks are just simply much better today. Eli and Bradshaw are just about equal, and I have no reason to think Eli couldn't win many Super Bowls if he had that team.

[BrlDsguise]

Rules have changed the game a lot over the last 30 years which opened up the passing game. Quarterbacks and wide receivers are more protected against contact than they ever were. Teams get better field position so there is more scoring. I don't disagree that QBs have gotten better but not to the extent that the HOF QBs of the 60's and 70's would be no match for Chad Pennington and Jeff Garcia if they played today.

Wayne

[Stopanimalabuse]

It's Eli vs. Romo. Who does Claire root for? I hear some Giants fans compare Eli to Dave Brown. Eli is not very good but I used to watch Brown frequently during the days I payed more attention to football and he was awful. Hopefully the comparisons will end, especially if New York can somehow defeat the Cowboys. It'll be interesting to see whether he is signed. I'd give him one more year and look for another quarterback if he's inconsistent.

[pinky]

Claire ALWAYS roots for whoever is playing the Cowboys, with two possible exceptions:

(1) A Dallas loss hurts the Eagles;

(2) The Cowboys are playing the Patriots (although that's a new exception).

:p

[Stopanimalabuse]

Claire ALWAYS roots for whoever is playing the Cowboys, with two possible exceptions:

(1) A Dallas loss hurts the Eagles;

(2) The Cowboys are playing the Patriots (although that's a new exception).

:p
So you hate the Giants but hate the Cowboys even more?

[pinky]

That is accurate. And, at least for now, I hate the Patriots more than the Cowboys.

[db44]

We are in agreement on that football-wise. :eek:

Here's a question for everyone: Considering everything we hear about Clemens, how many wonder if Favre could be using anything? The last two seasons, people kept waiting for Favre to retire. Part of his problem was the team, be he was also making some pretty horrid throws too. All of a sudden, he has an amazing year?

I wonder if Primosec masks steroids... Or for that matter, how much Favre gets tested. I like the guy, but am rather surprised we haven't heard any of these questions in recent weeks.

[Stopanimalabuse]

That is accurate. And, at least for now, I hate the Patriots more than the Cowboys.
Join the club. Just out of curisity, why do you feel that way about them? Is it because they're undefeated, handed players, pile up the score, cheat, or some other reason?

[Stopanimalabuse]

Here's a question for everyone: Considering everything we hear about Clemens, how many wonder if Favre could be using anything? The last two seasons, people kept waiting for Favre to retire. Part of his problem was the team, be he was also making some pretty horrid throws too. All of a sudden, he has an amazing year?
I've even read reports that they're looking into the music industry and Mary J. Blige and 50 Cent are two of the suspects. So, I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't think the substances would have the impact on quarterbacks the way it would on people in other industries and positions.

[pinky]

Join the club. Just out of curisity, why do you feel that way about them? Is it because they're undefeated, handed players, pile up the score, cheat, or some other reason?
All of the above, except for the undefeated part. I have no problem with a truly great team that gets there legitimately. But everyone knows they manipulated salaries to keep all those high-priced guys on the payroll.

I also can't stand Bellichick or Brady.

[db44]

Pitchers and quarterbacks? Both need strong leg and arm muscles...

I'm so hoping the Giants can knock over the Pack. I'm glad at least I can root for an NFC team in the playoffs, no matter who it is at this point. I'd be much happier if that's Big Blue though...

[pinky]

SWEET!!!! Now I can care about the Super Bowl!

And I did love watching T.O. after the game.......he's always behind his quarterbacks?

Twisting the knife, I guess. :rolleyes:

[db44]

Yeah, gotta love T.O. :rolleyes: Gotta love hearing him cry at the podium...

I also love all the pregame "experts" on FOX who didn't give the Giants a chance... Have they not been watching football this year, or the last few weeks?

[Stopanimalabuse]

Go Eli! It would be hilarious if he won a Super Bowl after his sub-par season and all the Giants fans complaining and booing. I don't think it will happen though. I used to be a Giants fan for years when I liked football, but I just have a feeling Eli will choke in the Super Bowl if he gets there so I'd rather see the Packers win. I am a Chargers fan for this week, and would proudly root for them out of appreciation in the Super Bowl if they can somehow defeat the Patriots.

[db44]

I just want them in the Super Bowl...

[Stopanimalabuse]

All of the above, except for the undefeated part. I have no problem with a truly great team that gets there legitimately. But everyone knows they manipulated salaries to keep all those high-priced guys on the payroll.

I also can't stand Bellichick or Brady.
I heard about Moss taking a pay cut so they could afford other players, but which other players took a pay cut? For me, the Welker and Moss trades are suspect. Welker was a good receiver and the best on the Dolphins, so I'd think a lot of teams would be interested in him. Moss would be the same way. If we find out one day that the NFL rigged it for the Patriots to receive those players, I wouldn't be surprised at all. There's plenty of other reasons, but that's the main one. If a team can't put together a Championship team based on legitimate trades and draft picks, they don't deserve to be Champions.

[pinky]

Go Eli! It would be hilarious if he won a Super Bowl after his sub-par season and all the Giants fans complaining and booing. I don't think it will happen though. I used to be a Giants fan for years when I liked football, but I just have a feeling Eli will choke in the Super Bowl if he gets there so I'd rather see the Packers win. I am a Chargers fan for this week, and would proudly root for them out of appreciation in the Super Bowl if they can somehow defeat the Patriots.
Eli had very little to do with the win. It was more the defense. Eli completed what, 12 passes? Nothing spectacular about that. Without Amani Toomer, he would have looked pathetic.

[db44]

Twelve completions yes, but they only attempted 18, not 30-40. He also threw for two scores and no picks.

He could have been better, yes, but on the other hand, he could have been much, much worse.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Eli had very little to do with the win. It was more the defense. Eli completed what, 12 passes? Nothing spectacular about that. Without Amani Toomer, he would have looked pathetic.
He completed 2/3 of his passes, 2 touchdowns, 0 interceptions, a QB rating higher than a 100, I think. Much better than average games for many "legends", but that's not saying much considering how overrated some of them are. He wasn't anything close to perfect, but if he can come close to those numbers every game, they have a shot at 13, 14 wins and a Super Bowl appearance or maybe even a victory. Strahan may have had a very good game, but the Cowboys were dropping several passes. The Giants definitely need a better secondary next season. I'm not sure how much credit their defense gets other than a few players.

[pinky]

Twelve completions yes, but they only attempted 18, not 30-40. He also threw for two scores and no picks. The fact that he only attempted 18 is a major part of the reason I said he had little to do with the win. The passing game wasn't a huge part of their offense.

He could have been better, yes, but on the other hand, he could have been much, much worse.
And often is. :nod:

[db44]

Not recently... Let's not forget Peyton wasn't the QB he turned out to be his first few years either.

Eli was good when he threw. But yes, they kept it on the ground... Which annoyed me on those two late drives when they were pegged down deep in their own territory. First, maybe second down yes, fine. But one attempt in those two three-and-outs would have made me a happier person.

[Stopanimalabuse]

It's funny because one of the people in the Patriots' management(owner, I think) was saying that people hate the team because they're winners, and I've heard Patriots fans say the same thing. Talk about being in denial. The Yankees are hated for buying off players, the Patriots are hated for various reasons, and I've noticed hatred against the Celtics lately. Many people think they were "handed" Garnett and Allen. The difference is that they got rid of a number 5 draft pick in one of the best drafts in decades, and Al Jefferson is being talked about as a multi-year all-star in the future. Allen also had ankle surgery and they're two aging veterans so there is a risk. Welker and Moss are in their prime, and there's maybe a 99% chance that the draft picks will mount to very little. Just like they have in their history, the Celtics used smart management to put together a potential Championship team while the Patriots were handed players. Those are the three teams who have a lot of hatred against them. The Spurs have won more Championships than the Patriots have and they're not hated. The Red Sox aren't hated too much, at least yet. I wish they could acknowledge the many reasons people hate them for instead of being in denial.

[Stopanimalabuse]

The Patriots are one away from being considered the greatest team ever, but you just can't make that argument. They've defeated a good Jaguars team, an injured Chargers team who isn't even that good anyways, and now they're playing a good Giants team who will likely have numerous injuries as well. Probably the easiest schedule you can have in the playoffs along with their easy schedule in the regular season. The Cowboys were the only Super Bowl contenders they've played who have been healthy. The 1984 49ers won big in their second game, and won big against the 14-2 Dolphins during the year Marino was so dominant. The Ravens gave the Patriots their win, while the 49ers' only loss was considered controversial. The 1985 Bears had a relatively easy playoff schedule, but they crushed all of the teams in the playoffs, something the Patriots haven't done once yet. The 1972 Dolphins had a very easy schedule but a difficult playoff schedule and lost their starting quarterback for a portion of the season as well. If Brady went out, then you could compare the two more. The Patriots will go down as one of the best if they win, but you just can't make a case for one of the four over the others. They'd have to play against each other, and that likely will never happen.

[db44]

One win away from being considered the best team ever? I donno... Enough people won't let Spygate go, and I wager they think the Pats are still cheating somehow.

[Stopanimalabuse]

It's funny too because some sites talk about ratings for different shows. Both Giants games have done very well, but nothing was mentioned for the Patriots game. Brady throws an occasional temper tantrum, but he's very robotic otherwise. Belichick is very much the same way without the temper tantrums. They are a very boring team, so it doesn't surprise me that they wouldn't be attracting the ratings even when they're chasing history.

[BrlDsguise]

The Patriots are one away from being considered the greatest team ever, but you just can't make that argument. They've defeated a good Jaguars team, an injured Chargers team who isn't even that good anyways, and now they're playing a good Giants team who will likely have numerous injuries as well. Probably the easiest schedule you can have in the playoffs along with their easy schedule in the regular season. The Cowboys were the only Super Bowl contenders they've played who have been healthy. The 1984 49ers won big in their second game, and won big against the 14-2 Dolphins during the year Marino was so dominant. The Ravens gave the Patriots their win, while the 49ers' only loss was considered controversial. The 1985 Bears had a relatively easy playoff schedule, but they crushed all of the teams in the playoffs, something the Patriots haven't done once yet. The 1972 Dolphins had a very easy schedule but a difficult playoff schedule and lost their starting quarterback for a portion of the season as well. If Brady went out, then you could compare the two more. The Patriots will go down as one of the best if they win, but you just can't make a case for one of the four over the others. They'd have to play against each other, and that likely will never happen.

Your post seems to imply the Pats playoff schedule would have been harder if they had to play Indy and Dallas (both of which NE beat on their home fields) instead of San Diego or the Giants. You can't pick your opponents and these teams lost. In my opinion they are playing the hottest team in football in the Super Bowl. If they win they get my vote for best ever.

Wayne

[JoviFan]

Your post seems to imply the Pats playoff schedule would have been harder if they had to play Indy and Dallas (both of which NE beat on their home fields) instead of San Diego or the Giants. You can't pick your opponents and these teams lost. In my opinion they are playing the hottest team in football in the Super Bowl. If they win they get my vote for best ever.

Wayne
I come to the conclusion that no matter what the Pats do someone is going to complain end of story. They are the best team there is right now and yes the hottest too. They beat Indy and Dallas and yet everyone complains. Get over it already. Yes we know people hate the Pats but for us that love them this is the greatest time for us. They deserve everything they have earned and im sick of people saying they don't. Good luck to the Pats in the superbowl i cannot wait to watch.
Nikki

[Stopanimalabuse]

I come to the conclusion that no matter what the Pats do someone is going to complain end of story. They are the best team there is right now and yes the hottest too. They beat Indy and Dallas and yet everyone complains. Get over it already. Yes we know people hate the Pats but for us that love them this is the greatest time for us. They deserve everything they have earned and im sick of people saying they don't. Good luck to the Pats in the superbowl i cannot wait to watch.
Nikki
The Colts didn't have Harrison and a few others playing, so it is a little different than beating a healthy Colts team. They were given Welker and Moss and had to get rid of a few draft picks that will likely amount to nothing. They've also been helped by free agency. I believe you have to get rid of players to get players, so completely one-sided trades should not be allowed. The Boston Celtics are the best comparison of a team who has historically had great management and they've earned the greats they have had. The Patriots only won their first Super Bowl due to the ridiculous no tuck rule, but they did a good job for their 2 after that. This season, they were handed many of the players they've had and don't deserve to win a Super Bowl. If your management can't find great wide receivers through legitimate trades or the draft, they don't deserve to have great wide receivers.

[Stopanimalabuse]

Your post seems to imply the Pats playoff schedule would have been harder if they had to play Indy and Dallas (both of which NE beat on their home fields) instead of San Diego or the Giants. You can't pick your opponents and these teams lost. In my opinion they are playing the hottest team in football in the Super Bowl. If they win they get my vote for best ever.

Wayne
There's no doubt the Giants are playing well. The Giants have a mediocre secondary, so that favors New England. If the Chargers had these injuries throughout the season, how many games would they have won? 5 or 6 maybe? You have to play a team that is healthy. You can't even make a case for them being the best team this year. The Colts had several injuries, so you have to beat a healthy team in order to have a claim that you're better than them. The Colts would have likely defeated the Chargers as well if they were healthy. The 49ers had I believe 4 safeties make the Pro Bowl in 1984, so they would have been an ideal match-up for New England. Brady has had some mediocre games this season when his receivers aren't wide open so frequently, so San Fransisco would have been a much harder game for them to win than any team they have played this year. You'd have to play a best of 7 and obviously that won't happen so you just can't make a case for any one team.

[JoviFan]

Thats how football is played sorry to break it to you i cannot help people get hurt you don't know if they would of won or lost to indy no one knows. The fact is that they won they also beat Dallas. It's a fact that most newscasters are saying the same thing that new england this year in a great team. People need to face it and get over it already im sick of hearing about it. I've come to the conclusion that people hate when great teams win like the Pats this year. And saying San Francisco would have been a team to beat them maybe what a joke. People are just ticked off. They have done nothing wrong with getting players this year everything was legit otherwise they would have been fined for it. Don't hate the fact that players want to take a pay cut to just play with the Pats.

[pinky]

The fact is that they won they also beat Dallas.
That's the one good thing they've done this year! :nod:

[Stopanimalabuse]

Thats how football is played sorry to break it to you i cannot help people get hurt you don't know if they would of won or lost to indy no one knows. The fact is that they won they also beat Dallas. It's a fact that most newscasters are saying the same thing that new england this year in a great team. People need to face it and get over it already im sick of hearing about it. I've come to the conclusion that people hate when great teams win like the Pats this year. And saying San Francisco would have been a team to beat them maybe what a joke. People are just ticked off. They have done nothing wrong with getting players this year everything was legit otherwise they would have been fined for it. Don't hate the fact that players want to take a pay cut to just play with the Pats.
The 1984 49ers had an outstanding defense which stopped Dan Marino in that amazing season he had. They also had Joe Montana. Maybe you've heard of him. I don't know who'd win, but they are one of the greatest teams ever along with New England if they win on Sunday. What do you think about New England voluntarily breaking the NFL rules? And piling up the score as well? There are many Patriots fans who believe their team is pure and wholesome and will make excuses for any act they do. I hope you're not one of them.

[JoviFan]

The 1984 49ers had an outstanding defense which stopped Dan Marino in that amazing season he had. They also had Joe Montana. Maybe you've heard of him. I don't know who'd win, but they are one of the greatest teams ever along with New England if they win on Sunday. What do you think about New England voluntarily breaking the NFL rules? And piling up the score as well? There are many Patriots fans who believe their team is pure and wholesome and will make excuses for any act they do. I hope you're not one of them.
I think what Bill did was wrong don't get me wrong. I don't think they pilled up scores there is 4 quarters to a game and are they just supposed to sit back and not score. I'm not sure what rules you are referring to other then the coach and his antics which were wrong but don't blame the team for what he did. Yes i have heard of Montana i am a fan have his jersey to this day. Brady has and is compared to Montana all the time compare the stats amazingly close.

[Stopanimalabuse]

I think what Bill did was wrong don't get me wrong. I don't think they pilled up scores there is 4 quarters to a game and are they just supposed to sit back and not score. I'm not sure what rules you are referring to other then the coach and his antics which were wrong but don't blame the team for what he did. Yes i have heard of Montana i am a fan have his jersey to this day. Brady has and is compared to Montana all the time compare the stats amazingly close.
There was one instance against Dallas where they were ahead by two scores with maybe 15 seconds left and went for the touchdown on fourth down rather than the field goal. There was also an instance against Buffalo where they were crushing the team and went for a touchdown on fourth down when they obviously should have gone for a field goal. Those are the two instances where they showed complete disrespect towards their opponents. They also video taped the Jets. The rules were meant to be followed and they voluntarily broke the rules. Complete disrespect to the NFL. The players should have said something, so it's a lot more than just Belichick who is to be blamed.

[JoviFan]

There was one instance against Dallas where they were ahead by two scores with maybe 15 seconds left and went for the touchdown on fourth down rather than the field goal. There was also an instance against Buffalo where they were crushing the team and went for a touchdown on fourth down when they obviously should have gone for a field goal. Those are the two instances where they showed complete disrespect towards their opponents. They also video taped the Jets. The rules were meant to be followed and they voluntarily broke the rules. Complete disrespect to the NFL. The players should have said something, so it's a lot more than just Belichick who is to be blamed.
This is were we disagree when your in a game you play the game if this was any other team you wouldn't be saying this. You play 4 quarters in a game and you play it well who cares if it was 4th down and they went for it so what any other team would of or could of if they wanted to. As for spying all the teams do it the difference is the Pats got caught. The comissioner himself was on tv just yesterday saying this himself. Don't flatter yourself and think that all the teams don't do it they do. I don't know what you want the players to say it was Bill's fault and any other coach who has done this there is plently. Bill paid for this he was fined. How do you not know the players didn't say anything to Bill since he is to blame here. I guess i have come to the conclusion that when you have a great team it brings out the haters. Everyone needs to get over it.

[pinky]

No, actually, MOST other teams would not go for it on 4th down that late in a game with an insurmountable lead. It's called "piling on" and most coaches don't do it, because it's disrespectful to the other team's coaches and players. It's a way of simply making them look bad. It's classless.

It's Patriots football these days.

[JoviFan]

I disagree if given the chance other teams would too. If they knew they could score a touchdown more teams would too instead of going just for 3 points. You have to option to go for 3 or a touchdown on a 4th down its not against any law.

And for the spygate thing this popped into my head. I also hear lots of people who think this same way..

Look, all teams tape their opponents, even today. The taping just cannot be done from the sidelines. All teams try to figure out the other teams signals, which is why the NFL has wireless headsets to quarterbacks and defensive captains. The prohibitation is from where you tape, not if you can tape. All NFL stadiums have cameras installed by home teams to tape their opponents sidelines and the plays. So, get over it. Its called "game tape."

[JoviFan]

From What I Understand, The No Taping Rule Was Put Into Effect Last Year, Not During Any Of The Other Years. Does Anyone Remember The Miami Dolphins A Couple Of Years Ago Knowing Almost Evey Play That The Patriots Presented? Where Do You Think They Got Those Plays, Through The Air? Instead Of Coming Down On A Great Team, Owner, & Coaching Staff, Why Don't You People That Are So Jealous Of The Pats., Turn Your Attention To Your Own Teams And Ask Why They Don't Take Some Of The Steps That The Patriots Have Taken In Becoming The Greatest Team In Nfl History? By The Way, Yankees Were Caught Stealing Signs From The Red Sox. Everyone Tries To Find That Edge, And I Mean Everyone!!!!

[pinky]

I disagree if given the chance other teams would too. If they knew they could score a touchdown more teams would too instead of going just for 3 points. You have to option to go for 3 or a touchdown on a 4th down its not against any law.

And for the spygate thing this popped into my head. I also hear lots of people who think this same way..

Look, all teams tape their opponents, even today. The taping just cannot be done from the sidelines. All teams try to figure out the other teams signals, which is why the NFL has wireless headsets to quarterbacks and defensive captains. The prohibitation is from where you tape, not if you can tape. All NFL stadiums have cameras installed by home teams to tape their opponents sidelines and the plays. So, get over it. Its called "game tape."So give me some instances where other teams piled on the score in the 4th quarter. Find me one game.

And "game tape" is of the game itself, not the sidelines. I'm not going to try to argue that the other teams aren't trying to steal signals, because all teams do that. But the Patriots were warned by the NFL to stop taping from the sidelines, and they did it anyway. Was it because they were stupid? Or were they just arrogant enough to believe they could do it and not face consequences. Either way, they look bad.

[Stopanimalabuse]

This is were we disagree when your in a game you play the game if this was any other team you wouldn't be saying this. You play 4 quarters in a game and you play it well who cares if it was 4th down and they went for it so what any other team would of or could of if they wanted to. As for spying all the teams do it the difference is the Pats got caught. The comissioner himself was on tv just yesterday saying this himself. Don't flatter yourself and think that all the teams don't do it they do. I don't know what you want the players to say it was Bill's fault and any other coach who has done this there is plently. Bill paid for this he was fined. How do you not know the players didn't say anything to Bill since he is to blame here. I guess i have come to the conclusion that when you have a great team it brings out the haters. Everyone needs to get over it.
I'd also be curious for an example. I used to watch football regularly when I was younger, and I don't recall anyone doing it. At least not on fourth down. You can always make claims, but one team has been caught cheating like that and that's New England.

As far as good teams go, the Spurs have won 4 NBA Championships and I have a lot of respect for the team and was rooting for them in the Championship last season. In baseball, I am a Mets and Indians fan and the Red Sox and Yankees are two teams I dislike, but that's more based on their actions rather than anything else. I don't have any ill feelings towards most teams that have won the World Series. In football, it's really only the Patriots and Peyton Manning. I have little ill feelings towards most good teams. I don't dislike teams because they're good.

[Stopanimalabuse]

I forgot to mention the Boston Celtics too. I've been a fan of them for a big portion of my life. They have the best record in basketball this season and have the most Championships. They have done a great job of drafting over the years, have received little in free agency, and don't do these trades where they're handed a great player for almost nothing. They're a completely different organization than the Patriots. That may apply to some, but I certainly don't hate teams because they're winners.

[Stopanimalabuse]

These last allegations are funny. Cheating against the Rams. I'd definitely kick Belichick out if they're proven true. Violating rules once is one thing, but on two ocasions it's ridiculous. If the Patriots have a new coach who is respectful and doesn't have the emotions of a robot, the team would still have the most over-hyped pro athlete ever in Tom Brady, but they'd definitely be less hateable. Moss is a free agent as well, so two-thirds of the reasons I loathe the team could be gone. I'd still dislike them a lot, but not with a passion the way I do now.

[pinky]

A coach with any class at all would have been on the field with his team for the last play of the game.