When is the Draft coming back?

[Regis Philbin]

Remember back in 2004 when the Democratic Party said Bush would bring the draft back? Anyone been drafted?

Bush only has 10 months left, he better hurry and get that draft in before he leaves office...

[Richard Tafoya]

He chickened out and instead re-drafted existing soldiers for longer and repeated deployments. When you have cowards in the offices of president and vice-president, a lot of political shortcuts get made at the expense of long-term health. That applies to our military, our economy and our foreign and domestic policy agendas.

The Democratic president and congress in 2009 will have a lot of messes to clean up.

But for now we end up with this:
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2007/09/27/army_is_worn_too_thin_says_general/
Army is worn too thin, says general

The Army's top officer, General George Casey, told Congress yesterday that his branch of the military has been stretched so thin by the war in Iraq that it can not adequately respond to another conflict - one of the strongest warnings yet from a military leader that repeated deployments to war zones in the Middle East have hamstrung the military's ability to deter future aggression.

In his first appearance as Army chief of staff, Casey told the House Armed Services Committee that the Army is "out of balance" and "the current demand for our forces exceeds the sustainable supply. We are consumed with meeting the demands of the current fight and are unable to provide ready forces as rapidly as necessary for other potential contingencies."

...

Casey, a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, wanted a public forum even though he has ample opportunity to speak to lawmakers in closed-door meetings.

Representative John M. McHugh, a New York Republican, said Casey's blunt testimony was "just downright frightening."

...

The strain on the Army has been growing steadily since Bush sent troops into Iraq in 2003 - the longest sustained combat for an all-volunteer American force since the Revolutionary War. The Pentagon and military analysts have documented the signs of the breakdown: serious recruiting problems, an exodus of young officers, and steadily falling readiness rates of nearly every stateside unit.

[Paulie]

Speaking of cowards...

When are the sons of the Mormon Moron, Nitwit Mitt, gonna enlist??

Paulie

[tiger_rascal]

Its never too late for a draft. :nc:

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Remember back in 2004 when the Democrat Party said Bush would bring the draft back? Anyone been drafted?

Bush only has 10 months left, he better hurry and get that draft in before he leaves office...

Nope, and he won't. It's easier just to re-up the soldiers he has already. So that's what he's doing, over the objection of many of the troops and a few of his top commanding officers.

[Annoyedlistner]

Remember back in 2004 when the Democrat Party said Bush would bring the draft back? Anyone been drafted?

Bush only has 10 months left, he better hurry and get that draft in before he leaves office...

We have asked you time and time again, when are you going to enlist? You support this war so much yet you wont enlist?

I guess its ok for our troops to be spending more and more time in Iraq so bush doesnt have to commit political suicide right? It doesnt matter what the cost Regis, as long as the Republican party stays in power right?

No life is important...just keep the republicans in power.

[ConnieB]

First of all, it was the Democrats who put up the bill for reinstating the draft...do your research.

Rep. Charles Rangel, a DEMOCRAT, introduced the bill (H.R. 163) in Jan of 2003 and sponsored by Mr. McDermott, Mr. Conyers, Mr. Lewis of Georgia, Mr. Stark, and Mr.Abercrombie...Also Democrats. It was voted down by a huge margin. Then in 2006, Rangel reintroduced the bill again and once again it was voted down by a huge margin. No republican supported either bill.

For those of you calling people who don't enlist cowards....how about your kids or yourself??????? All I can say is look yourself in the mirror as you say these things.... I'm proud to say I'm not a coward and neither is my husband as we served during the early 90's.

[Richard Tafoya]

That's because if you undertake a generation-long war commitment like the Iraq War, you have to staff accordingly rather than punish those servicemen and women who were unlucky enough to serve their country under Bush.

Democrats are realistic about the math: either we deplete our military and accept a weaker force in the long run, or we end our role in the conflict that's hurting our military, or we begin drafting young men and women to fulfill the needs of the next decade or more in Iraq.

As for your numbers comparing Clinton military deaths to
bush military deaths, here's the military data:

1993
Total serving: 1,849,537
Total deaths: 1,213
Total deaths per 100k serving: 65.6
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

1994
Total serving: 1,746,482
Total deaths: 1,075
Total deaths per 100k serving: 61.6
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

1995
Total serving: 1,661,928
Total deaths: 1,040
Total deaths per 100k serving: 62.5
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

1996
Total serving: 1,613,675
Total deaths: 974
Total deaths per 100k serving per 100k serving: 67.5
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0.1

1997
Total serving: 1,578,382
Total deaths: 817
Total deaths per 100k serving: 51.8
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

1998
Total serving: 1,538,370
Total deaths: 827
Total deaths per 100k serving: 53.8
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

1998
Total serving: 1,525,942
Total deaths: 796
Total deaths per 100k serving: 52.2
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

2000
Total serving: 1,530,430
Total deaths: 758
Total deaths per 100k serving: 50.0
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0

2001
Total serving: 1,552,096
Total deaths: 891
Total deaths per 100k serving: 57.4
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 0.2

2002
Total serving: 1,627,142
Total deaths: 999
Total deaths per 100k serving: 61.4
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 1.1

2003
Total serving: 1,732,632
Total deaths: 1,410
Total deaths per 100k serving: 81.4
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 19.9

2004
Total serving: 1,711,916
Total deaths: 1,887
Total deaths per 100k serving: 110.2
Total hostile deaths per 100k serving: 43.1


Non-hostile deaths can include those caused by accident, illness, homicide, suicide, terrorist attack, or other undetermined causes.

[ConnieB]

During 1992 -2000

Military decreaed by 500,000 personnel

Bases were closed

decreased spending by $50 billion

deployments increased- army conducted 26 operations in the 90's compared to 10 during the 80's. The marines performed 62 during the 90's compared to 15 during the 80's.

All this began the lowered military readiness and shortages along with military equipment aging and not being able to be replaced as quickly. So yes, do the math....it didn't just start with Bush and Iraq. Clinton drastically decreased our military while deploying troops and that is what caused our military to be hurting...the squadron I was in had to be relocated from OH to CA, and 15 of our people were relocated to a different squadron due to Clinton. So we had less people working on aircraft which meant longer down times..now how does this help our military?

By the way, every day our military is engaged somewhere in the world and has been since World war II, but the public doesn't hear about them as they are not highly publicized like Iraq is.

[Richard Tafoya]

I think you might be pushing some of the same numbers that Giuliani did.

From FactCheck.org:

Rudy's Historic Rewrite

Giuliani falsely blamed President Clinton for cuts in the military that happened mostly under a Republican administration:

Giuliani: Bill Clinton cut the military drastically. It's called the peace dividend, one of those nice-sounding phrases, very devastating. It was a 25, 30 percent cut in the military. President Bush has never made up for that. We – our Army had been at 725,000; it's down to 500,000.

Actually, most of the cutting to which Giuliani refers occurred during the administration of George H.W. Bush. At the end of fiscal year 1993 (which was Bush’s last one in office), the Army had 572,423 active-duty soldiers – a far cry from 725,000. In fact, to get to that number, one has to go back to 1990, during the first gulf war. Moreover, Clinton’s cuts in the military, while large, were nowhere close to 25 percent to 30 percent. Between 1993 and 2001, the Army went from 572,423 to 480,801, which is a decline of 16 percent. The entire military went from 1,705,103 to 1,385,116, a decrease of 18.8 percent.

Compare that with the far larger cuts made during the first Bush administration: In 1989, the military stood at 2,130,229 and the Army had 769,741 soldiers. By 1993, those numbers had declined by 19.9 percent and 25.6 percent, respectively.

And as we’ve pointed out before, it was the first Bush administration – specifically then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney – that began bragging openly of the peace dividend.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Don't let facts get in your way, Connie. And while we're at it, let's not forget the fact that Bush got us into this war under false pretenses and that's why soldiers and innocent civillians are dying.

[Annoyedlistner]

First of all, it was the Democrats who put up the bill for reinstating the draft...do your research.

Rep. Charles Rangel, a DEMOCRAT, introduced the bill (H.R. 163) in Jan of 2003 and sponsored by Mr. McDermott, Mr. Conyers, Mr. Lewis of Georgia, Mr. Stark, and Mr.Abercrombie...Also Democrats. It was voted down by a huge margin. Then in 2006, Rangel reintroduced the bill again and once again it was voted down by a huge margin. No republican supported either bill.

For those of you calling people who don't enlist cowards....how about your kids or yourself??????? All I can say is look yourself in the mirror as you say these things.... I'm proud to say I'm not a coward and neither is my husband as we served during the early 90's.


I'm not signing up because i know i would most likely be sent to a war that i do NOT support.

If you support the war in Iraq then sign up and fight. I cant see how someone can sit here and say they support the war yet they wont sign up for it, they are putting others lives on the line by supporting it but not themselves?


In order to win these wars....dont you think we need more troops on the ground? Bush has the balls to invade a country for no reason, yet he will not own up to the fact that more troops are needed in order to do it correctly.

[Richard Tafoya]

And it's worth noting yet again that active duty military are overwhelmingly making campaign donations to candidates that are promising an end to their deployments.

When the study was done several weeks ago, they were supporting Obama and Paul, but now Paul has dropped out, so it would appear that active duty military will be throwing all their support behind Obama and behind an end to the Iraq war.

[pinky]

For those of you calling people who don't enlist cowards....how about your kids or yourself??????? All I can say is look yourself in the mirror as you say these things.... I'm proud to say I'm not a coward and neither is my husband as we served during the early 90's.
Connie, thank you for your service to our country. I'm glad you were able and willing to do that. You obviously felt the conviction that it was the right choice, and you had the courage to act on it.

As for me, I would have been the usual enlistment age during Vietnam, an immoral war that I didn't support. It was not cowardice, but moral conviction, that prevented me from considering that option. My children, who are 20 and 22, feel exactly the same about this war as I did about Iraq. Not because of cowardice, but because they believe it to be wrong.

As Joey has already pointed out, people who support the current war in Iraq with lip service only, but who are unwilling to make a commitment to serve, are the true cowards. As are the current C-in-C and VP, both of whom managed to support the Vietnam war without actually having to go there.

It's the hypocrisy that proves the point.