why is there no decent vocalist AND performer?

[Hemingway]

it sucks and its never happened

Mariah and Whitney were the best vocalists but they were only average performers. Both could hold the stage pretty well. Now they both suck on both accounts with their shot voices.

Britney and Madonna were poor vocalists but amazing performers. Now they both suck at that too and Madonna clearly has a penis.

Christina WAS good at both but she failed trying to become a serious artist, waiting years between albums and becoming a joke. Now she has kids she cant perform like she used to.

Carrie and Leona are the best new vocalists but they fail flat at entertaining. Carrie is only good on stage when doing rock songs which are not her genre of music and Leona is only good when singing cover versions and they get old fast.

[Manuel]

Christina is a good performer and also Beyonce.

[Hemingway]

Yonka cant sing and has awful songs and Christina is over cos she had kids and never releases anything

[EDT]

I guess u mean performers as dancers and whatnot.

It's never been a standard for people who could sing as good as Mariah/Whitney/whoever to be a dancer or anything. It's too difficult to sing their songs live and have too much movement.

The only reason people like Christina and Beyonce did it was because they came out at a time when dancing and putting on a "good show" became more important than the vocals.

It's really hard to do both extremely well unless you lipsynch..and then you're not doing both cuz ur not singing...so I guess that point was pretty moot..I'm an idiot :o

[Tchelo]

I disagree. Here in Brasil we have several singers who can sing and performer better than any of this bitches.

[Manuel]

Yonka cant sing and has awful songs and Christina is over cos she had kids and never releases anything
Yeah she can sing and she has some good songs. Christina ain't over!

[Hemingway]

one 'throwback' album in 7 years aint doin ish for any bish, she over

[Manuel]

no she isnt',Britney is the one thats over.

[Hemingway]

then why has britney 3 top 20 hits in the last 12 months and everybody forgets Xtopher exists? you FAIL

[Manuel]

what 3 top 20 hits? BTI flopped and Xtopher is respected in the Music industry well britney not so much.

[Hemingway]

BTI was top 20 worldwide and also on the pop charts in the US.

and what 'respect'? Nobody outside of LD has ever mentioned this. You dont get respect by singing other peoples songs. She is not a great songwriter at all. FAIL.

[jimmyboy]

Yeah, I remember Whitney and mariah in the old days with them crazy and so difficult choreographies... Nobody does that now.

[kristina]

Christina and Beyoncé are the only two that amaze me. No one else comes close to their LIVE performance skills, imo.

[kristina]

then why has britney 3 top 20 hits in the last 12 months and everybody forgets Xtopher exists? you FAIL
:funny:

Yeah...

http://i29.tinypic.com/2wd2fpd.jpg

... Totally non-existent.

[Blutina]

^:laugh:

[Manuel]

BTI was top 20 worldwide and also on the pop charts in the US.

and what 'respect'? Nobody outside of LD has ever mentioned this. You dont get respect by singing other peoples songs. She is not a great songwriter at all. FAIL.
well it flopped here in the U.S. didn't even reach top 40, Christina also had 3 top 20 hits worldwide so.

She has respect from Legends like the The Rolling Stones and Herbie hancock. and She is a good songwriter

[Slayer4Xtina]

:hah:


pipi give it up.....Christina got ur mind...so bad :laugh:

[Hemingway]

well it flopped here in the U.S. didn't even reach top 40, Christina also had 3 top 20 hits worldwide so.

She has respect from Legends like the The Rolling Stones and Herbie hancock. and She is a good songwriter
:eek:
Back in the day, they used to say
Play that song, get it going, and the band played
And still today, you hear us say
Play that song all night long, Mr. DJ
Though times have changed,
It's still the same
We all need a minute to get away
So let it go and feel the flow
If you've got soul, let the world know

We're gonna set the mood (set the mood off right)
Gonna go back to an old school groove (go back to an old school groove)
Gonna rewind to another time
When the originators, innovators were alive, yeah

Here we say now
So break out the Marvin Gaye and Etta James
Your Lady Day, and Coltrane
Turn up your 45's, bring back to life
The sound and vibe of yesterday
Open your mind, enjoy the ride,
Get out tonight and grab that Soul Train

[Hemingway]

Christina and Beyoncé are the only two that amaze me. No one else comes close to their LIVE performance skills, imo.
Britney is a better stage performer than those two, so was MJ and JJ. everybody knows this.

[Manuel]

:laugh: I said she was a good writer not a fantastic one lol well that still better than this.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah

I know that you've been waiting for it
I'm waiting too
In my imagination I'd be all up on you
I know you got that fever for me
Hundred and two
And boy I know I feel the same
My temperature's through the roof


If there's a camera up in here
Then it's gonna leave with me
When I do (I do)
If there's a camera up in here
Then I'd best not catch this flick
On YouTube (YouTube)
'Cause if you run your mouth and brag
About this secret rendezvous
I will hunt you down
'Cause they be all up in my bidness
Like a Wendy Interview
But this is private
Between you and I

Touch my body
Put me on the floor
Wrestle me around
Play with me some more
Touch my body
Throw me on the bed
I just wanna make you feel
Like you never did.
Touch my body
Let me wrap my thighs
All around your waist
Just a little taste
Touch my body
Know you love my curves
Come on and give me what I deserve
And touch my body.

Boy you can put me on you
Like a brand new white tee
I'll hug your body tighter
Than my favorite jeans
I want you to caress me
Like a tropical breeze
And float away with you
In the Caribbean Sea

Touch my body
Put me on the floor
Wrestle me around
Play with me some more
Touch my body
Throw me on the bed
I just wanna make you feel
Like you never did.
Touch my body
Let me wrap my thighs
All around your waist
Just a little taste
Touch my body
Know you love my curves
Come on and give me what I deserve
And touch my body.

I'm gonna treat you like a teddy bear
You won't wanna go nowhere
In the lap of luxury
Baby just turn to me
You won't want for nothing boy
I will give you plenty
Touch my body

[kristina]

Britney is a better stage performer than those two, so was MJ and JJ. everybody knows this.
I highlighted LIVE for a reason. ;)

I can't even begin to explain how unexciting it is to watch someone get up there and lip a performance. It does nothing for me. And I DESPISE when Beyoncé & Christina do it.

[Nix]

BTI was top 20 worldwide and also on the pop charts in the US.

and what 'respect'? Nobody outside of LD has ever mentioned this. You dont get respect by singing other peoples songs. She is not a great songwriter at all. FAIL.

ANOM, Hurt and Candyman all were top 20 worldwide. Candyman was also top 20 on pop charts in US.

And for the respect part:
"I'm now at the age when they give me tributes," laughs composer, arranger and conductor Howard Cable. He’s referring to the CBC Radio program featuring his work, which will be broadcast July 1.

Cable began his CBC Radio career in 1941 as a composer, eventually succeeding Percy Faith as Canada's best known musical radio personality. He has provided music for hundreds of CBC shows, including Canadian Cavalcade, Jolly Miller Time, and Music by Cable. He also wrote the original theme song for Hockey Night in Canada, a march called "Saturday's Game."

From Expo, he went on to spend twelve years as musical director at the Royal York, working with stars like Ella Fitzgerald, Tony Bennett, Peggy Lee, Bob Hope, and even Jim Carrey. He left the Royal York when "the whole thing just started to go downhill."

These days, Cable is still active, conducting shows, and speaking at schools and organization events. He does not pay much attention to new music, but does feel there are some interesting trends, such as Christina Aguilera who makes "good music."

"In today's music, there's nothing to grab on to," says Cable. "Its just angry young men yelling at you, or teeny boppers singing cutsie stuff... In twenty years, they won't be remembered."
http://www.thebulletin.ca/cbulletin/content.jsp?sid=19954682381376790613127256333&ctid=1000012&cnid=1001402

Sorry sweetie. You failed. Again.

[Hemingway]

:funny:
ok TMB was a fun song. Please find me even one half decently written XA song that could compare to Mariahs writing on Butterfly. FAIL

[Hemingway]

ANOM, Hurt and Candyman all were top 20 worldwide. Candyman was also top 20 on pop charts in US.

And for the respect part:

http://www.thebulletin.ca/cbulletin/content.jsp?sid=19954682381376790613127256333&ctid=1000012&cnid=1001402

Sorry sweetie. You failed. Again.
grasping straws much?

[kristina]

:funny:
ok TMB was a fun song. Please find me even one half decently written XA song that could compare to Mariahs writing on Butterfly. FAIL
:roll: :roll: :roll:

Cruz, Mercy On Me, & Walk Away --> Butterfly. BIG TIME.

[Tchelo]

No :roll:.

Beyonce is good.

[jimmyboy]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Cruz, Mercy On Me, & Walk Away --> Butterfly. BIG TIME.
No.

[kristina]

No.
Yes.

I don't even think Butterfly is her best, anyway. That's like saying TVW or IWB are Christina's best. Cheesy, cliché lyrics are the worst. :throwup:

The Roof was the best written song on Butterfly, IMO. But, I still think Cruz, MOM, & WA are better than anything Mariah's written. :bulb:

[Hemingway]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Cruz, Mercy On Me, & Walk Away --> Butterfly. BIG TIME.
what a joke. I agree the only song that Christina wrote that can touch Mariahs writing is Walk Away, but even that pales in comparison to anything on MCs collection as a whole. She has about 20 songs better than it.

But good try :)

[Hemingway]

Yes.

I don't even think Butterfly is her best, anyway. That's like saying TVW or IWB are Christina's best. Cheesy, cliché lyrics are the worst. :throwup:

The Roof was the best written song on Butterfly, IMO. But, I still think Cruz, MOM, & WA are better than anything Mariah's written. :bulb:
go listen to:

I Wish You Well
Petals
My Saving Grace
Whenever You Call
One Sweet Day
Hero
Mine Again
We Belong Together
Looking In
Slipping Away
Butterfly
My All
Sunflowers for Alfred Roy
Reflections

.... Mariah is a killer songwriter! :nod:

and Kris, how is Mel? I never see her online anywhere now.

[Hemingway]

No :roll:.

Beyonce is good.
:funny: :roll: :funny: :roll: :funny: :roll: :funny:

what a damn mess. I know English is not your first language.... and that is obvious. Have you read the hot mess her lyrics are? for example her biggest hit

I look at you into your eyes
touch on your more and more everytime
when you leave i'm beggin you not to go
call ur name 2, 3 times in a row

:funny: :roll: :manson:

I swear its like a retarded person from the ghetto at age 2 could pull off that sh*t. makes Christina look like Jane Austen

[Tchelo]

It's up there with Candyman, Dirrty, Can't Hold Us Down, GMGY, Touch My Body, Migrate, It's Like That, To The Floor, Love Story... Do I really need to do this?

[Hemingway]

yes. you need to find us a Yonka song that makes lyrical sense and can be compared to the likes of Walk Away or Butterfly.

[Tchelo]

Through With Love is as good as those. Funny how this thread is about a decent performer and vocalist and you're bringing up lyrics to try to discredit Beyonce.
She can sing whatever she wants she'll still be a great performer.

[Reini]

Cause the world fails to it.

[EDT]

yes. you need to find us a Yonka song that makes lyrical sense and can be compared to the likes of Walk Away or Butterfly.
My Time Has Come
Dangerously In Love
A Gift From Virgo
Flaws & All
Through With Love

[EDT]

Anyway about Christina vs. Mariah's songwriting.

Mariah's better. But Christina's not bad.

Mariah's style is usually very vivid, expressive, poetic. It's very pretty. She uses imagery and metaphors and is very descriptive. I think Underneath The Stars, Fourth Of July, The Roof, Lullaby, Subtle Invitation, even Touch My Body (it's a stupid song..but it's written very well lol).

And besides all that just her structure is better. In most cases, especially earlier in her career, her songs were very structured. I'm not sure if she intentionally does this or if it was just innate but I forget what it wa actually called..we learned about it in English class..anywayz..the way that every line or every other line would have the same amount of syllables on each verse and whatnot. I can't describe that correctly but like in Honey..the beat count is the same on each verse and how I Don't Wanna Cry is the same way except each line on the second verse has an extra syllable or beat count or whatever.

It's those subtle things that most people won't notice that make her a better songwriter. (technically)

Christina isn't bad. Herwriting style is just different. She's far more literal in her writing and doesn't really stick to a structure. Which is perfectly fine.

But even with all that..ultimately whoever's songs you can relate to more is OBVIOUSLY who you're going to think the better songwriter is.

So stop fighting.

It's old.

[WRmasque]

Anyway about Christina vs. Mariah's songwriting.

Mariah's better. But Christina's not bad.

Mariah's style is usually very vivid, expressive, poetic. It's very pretty. She uses imagery and metaphors and is very descriptive. I think Underneath The Stars, Fourth Of July, The Roof, Lullaby, Subtle Invitation, even Touch My Body (it's a stupid song..but it's written very well lol).

And besides all that just her structure is better. In most cases, especially earlier in her career, her songs were very structured. I'm not sure if she intentionally does this or if it was just innate but I forget what it wa actually called..we learned about it in English class..anywayz..the way that every line or every other line would have the same amount of syllables on each verse and whatnot. I can't describe that correctly but like in Honey..the beat count is the same on each verse and how I Don't Wanna Cry is the same way except each line on the second verse has an extra syllable or beat count or whatever.

It's those subtle things that most people won't notice that make her a better songwriter. (technically)

Christina isn't bad. Herwriting style is just different. She's far more literal in her writing and doesn't really stick to a structure. Which is perfectly fine.

But even with all that..ultimately whoever's songs you can relate to more is OBVIOUSLY who you're going to think the better songwriter is.

So stop fighting.

It's old.
:sunny:

[kristina]

what a joke. I agree the only song that Christina wrote that can touch Mariahs writing is Walk Away, but even that pales in comparison to anything on MCs collection as a whole. She has about 20 songs better than it.

But good try :)
nah, i've heard mariah's entire catalogue and i don't think anything she's written comes close to WA, MOM, or Cruz. not at all.

edit: but petals, close my eyes, and the roof come close. idk, like EDT said, they write their songs in a completely different way. if i want to listen to harsher lyrics, i listen to christina... if i'm feeling poetic, i'll listen to mariah.

cuz, even with christina's more "poetic-esque" lyrics, she's still very narrative & literal (like with Cruz).

[kristina]

go listen to:

I Wish You Well
Petals
My Saving Grace
Whenever You Call
One Sweet Day
Hero
Mine Again
We Belong Together
Looking In
Slipping Away
Butterfly
My All
Sunflowers for Alfred Roy
Reflections

.... Mariah is a killer songwriter! :nod:

and Kris, how is Mel? I never see her online anywhere now.
lol, i've heard alllll of them, and i still think the christina song i mentioned are better.

most of my favourite mariah lyrics aren't even on that list!:
petals, my all, the roof, always be my baby, vision of love, vanishing

and out of all her cheesy, inspirational writing, i think close my eyes is the best. definitely better than butterfly or hero. but, i guess we have different tastes. :o

and idk how mel is. i haven't talked to her in weeks.

[kristina]

It's up there with Candyman, Dirrty, Can't Hold Us Down, GMGY, Touch My Body, Migrate, It's Like That, To The Floor, Love Story... Do I really need to do this?
Get Mine, Get Yours has great lyrics. "work me like a 9 to 5", sorry but that line is awesome. albeit it's one of her cheesier songs, but for the direction of the lyrical content, it fits.

and beyoncé can't write an uptempo to save her life. i mean, her beats and hooks are always hot, but lyrically? ew. i mean, uptempos are not serious or deep in anyway, but compare freakum dress or crazy in love to GMGY or dirrty, and they don't even hold a candle. even mariah's uptempos like ABMB or honey are always well written. beyoncé is so f*cking ghetto. :throwup:

kitty kat and get me bodied (as hot as that song is) have the worst lyrics i've ever heard. worse than britney. :manson:

[kristina]

Anyway about Christina vs. Mariah's songwriting.

Mariah's better. But Christina's not bad.

Mariah's style is usually very vivid, expressive, poetic. It's very pretty. She uses imagery and metaphors and is very descriptive. I think Underneath The Stars, Fourth Of July, The Roof, Lullaby, Subtle Invitation, even Touch My Body (it's a stupid song..but it's written very well lol).

And besides all that just her structure is better. In most cases, especially earlier in her career, her songs were very structured. I'm not sure if she intentionally does this or if it was just innate but I forget what it wa actually called..we learned about it in English class..anywayz..the way that every line or every other line would have the same amount of syllables on each verse and whatnot. I can't describe that correctly but like in Honey..the beat count is the same on each verse and how I Don't Wanna Cry is the same way except each line on the second verse has an extra syllable or beat count or whatever.

It's those subtle things that most people won't notice that make her a better songwriter. (technically)

Christina isn't bad. Herwriting style is just different. She's far more literal in her writing and doesn't really stick to a structure. Which is perfectly fine.

But even with all that..ultimately whoever's songs you can relate to more is OBVIOUSLY who you're going to think the better songwriter is.

So stop fighting.

It's old.
:nod:

i think mariah is an outstanding songwriter, but i guess some of christina's songs speak more personally to me (esp WA & Cruz) than mariah's. although, i can never listen to ABMB or Vanishing without becoming emotional. Petals too (and i can't even relate to that one).

[julie.]

i think close my eyes is the best. definitely better than butterfly or hero.
:sunny:

[~Crybaby~]

Anyway about Christina vs. Mariah's songwriting.

Mariah's better. But Christina's not bad.

Mariah's style is usually very vivid, expressive, poetic. It's very pretty. She uses imagery and metaphors and is very descriptive. I think Underneath The Stars, Fourth Of July, The Roof, Lullaby, Subtle Invitation, even Touch My Body (it's a stupid song..but it's written very well lol).

And besides all that just her structure is better. In most cases, especially earlier in her career, her songs were very structured. I'm not sure if she intentionally does this or if it was just innate but I forget what it wa actually called..we learned about it in English class..anywayz..the way that every line or every other line would have the same amount of syllables on each verse and whatnot. I can't describe that correctly but like in Honey..the beat count is the same on each verse and how I Don't Wanna Cry is the same way except each line on the second verse has an extra syllable or beat count or whatever.

It's those subtle things that most people won't notice that make her a better songwriter. (technically)

Christina isn't bad. Herwriting style is just different. She's far more literal in her writing and doesn't really stick to a structure. Which is perfectly fine.

But even with all that..ultimately whoever's songs you can relate to more is OBVIOUSLY who you're going to think the better songwriter is.

So stop fighting.

It's old.

Great post! You described her style really well and all that you mentioned... It's what makes Mariah the best female writer in the business. She wrote 18 #1 hits, plenty of classics tracks, and her pen game is still amazing. :love: I can't think of any other female who's seen that type of success with songs they wrote and produced over the years.

Another thing about it, music has changed so much since the early 90's. The styles, what's popular, the ever changing trends, ect. The fact that throughout all the drastic changes she's managed to write and produce well received, #1 hits and classics is a testament to how stylistically diverse and gifted she is on paper. It's one of the reasons why I have no problem supporting her with her vocal issues, her lyrics touch me in a way no other can. Even today where the music seems a little more fluffly and less meaningful, the talent and depth shines through. I Wish You Well and Fly Like A Bird will put the majority of material out today to shame.

[~Crybaby~]

Another thing I forgot to mention... Butterfly is my favorite album from Mariah vocally and lyrically. I was so surprised to see on the actual CD when I purchased the album that Mariah wrote most of the songs herself, entirely. No additional writers or anything. I know you guys are gonna think I'm crazy, but I swear sometimes I think she's a genius. :nc:

[Slayer4Xtina]

DEAD :hah: @ Tchola's ass coming here in Moo moo's forum to argue with Lambs then comes back to CA forum to argue with Ag Hags......*sighs* it's like Migration Festival.....:roll:

[kristina]

Great post! You described her style really well and all that you mentioned... It's what makes Mariah the best female writer in the business. She wrote 18 #1 hits, plenty of classics tracks, and her pen game is still amazing. :love: I can't think of any other female who's seen that type of success with songs they wrote and produced over the years.

Another thing about it, music has changed so much since the early 90's. The styles, what's popular, the ever changing trends, ect. The fact that throughout all the drastic changes she's managed to write and produce well received, #1 hits and classics is a testament to how stylistically diverse and gifted she is on paper. It's one of the reasons why I have no problem supporting her with her vocal issues, her lyrics touch me in a way no other can. Even today where the music seems a little more fluffly and less meaningful, the talent and depth shines through. I Wish You Well and Fly Like A Bird will put the majority of material out today to shame.
No, she didn't. I think some of her #1's were covers...

[~Crybaby~]

^ "I'll Be There" is her only #1 cover. And if "I'll Be Lovin' U Long Time" hits #1 like I'm hoping, it'll be 18 baby! :love:

[Manuel]

natedeezy what about Diane Werren? I think she is a better Writer than Mariah.

[kristina]

^ "I'll Be There" is her only #1 cover. And if "I'll Be Lovin' U Long Time" hits #1 like I'm hoping, it'll be 18 baby! :love:
I thought WY went to #1... guess not.

[EDT]

I thought WY went to #1... guess not.
not in the US

[.::Andreita::.]

natedeezy what about Diane Werren? I think she is a better Writer than Mariah.


But Mariah also sings!!...:o

[Hemingway]

why is Manuel banned? why is everyone banned? lol

and srsly, Mariahs writing of some of those songs was minimal. She wrote heavily on the ballads but added very little in the uptempos which are essentially based on samples.

[Lord]

:funny:

Yeah...

http://i29.tinypic.com/2wd2fpd.jpg

... Totally non-existent.
:laugh:

[<<BeYsUs>>]

:funny:

Yeah...

http://i29.tinypic.com/2wd2fpd.jpg

... Totally non-existent.


:funny: