Rose-colored glasses

[db44]

That's the way the McBushies seem to be looking at the world.

I could have sworn last night we were told the economy was strong... Then why today are there reports of record high foreclosures and 84-thousand jobs lost?

And why was the party that says its strong on security again the subject of show-stopping protests?

[db44]

Oh, and I loved the Senator from Arizona telling the country he has an education plan.

For the record, Arizona is dead last when it comes to education. According to this poll, Arizona is last in smartness.

http://www.local6.com/education/10097181/detail.html

PHOENIX -- When it comes to intelligence, a new survey ranks Arizona dead last among the states.

For the second year in a row, an annual smartest-state ranking puts Arizona in the No. 50 spot.

The list is compiled by Morgan Quitno Press, a private research and publishing company in Kansas that also puts out annual rankings on the most livable, safest and healthiest states.

Also, if you read on, Alaska isn't much better... Hasn't Palin repeatedly told us she got into politics in the first place to strengthen education? :confused:

[SparkleHugs]

:nc: Next time I hear someone comment on how people from certain states aren't that smart, im going to tell them about this list. Cause we Californians arent looking too good either.

but way to go Pinks for livin with the smarties! Too bad we cant say that about Palin and McCain.

[tiger_rascal]

WV #37, not too bad, considering all the jokes about my state. :)

[SparkleHugs]

That's exactly what i was thinking! All the states that are typically made fun of for being simple minded and backward are way ahead of the big states like mine.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

I'm not sure where Florida is, but I think it's pretty far down there on the list.

Edited to add: Oh, I just looked at the list Dave provided in the link. Florida is 29th. Not as bad as I thought we would be, actually.

[Richard Tafoya]

I think the GOP argument would be that anyone higher than 20 is one of them "elite" types. That salt of the earth regular folks shouldn't be expected to know where Iraq is on a globe or figure out how many gallons of gas you can buy for $20.

[SparkleHugs]

I once read that something like 75% of Americans couldnt find Iraq on a map.

[db44]

Seven of top ten voted Democrat in 2004, and it looks like those same states have done so for at least three of the last four presidential elections.

Conversely, eight of the bottom ten voted Republican in 2004.

[LesterX]

^So true, Richard.

Actually, I think there are all kinds of problems with that list, starting with the term "smartest state." No legitimate researcher would ever use such a term; the purpose of it is to sell books, not be informative. Their list of indicators is problematic. For example, since states do not all calculate dropout rates in the same manner, you can't fairly compare rates from state to state. (The governors have pledged to use a uniform measure, but that's not happening yet.) Same thing with proficiency scores. Thanks to NCLB, states are free to define proficiency however they please. In order not to be punished by the federal government for not meeting proficiency standards, they simply dumb down the tests. Again, not a fair comparison.

However...all one has to do is look at McCain's and Obama's web sites to see which one really has a plan. McCain's "plan" is a 1.5 page document. Half the "elements" of the plan are just random statements with no plan attached. E.g.:
John McCain Will Provide Effective Education Leadership. John McCain is committed to high standards and accountability, but he is also committed to providing the resources needed to succeed. He believes we should invest in people, parents and reward achievement. (www.johnmccain.com)

Where is the plan there?

With the exception of giving teachers incentives to work in underperforming schools, nowhere in McCain's "plan" is there any discussion of addressing the high drop-out rates, particularly in urban communities. Early education/school readiness? Not a word.

Obama's plan, OTOH, is 15 pages in length and has far more specifics. He talks extensively about early education, which is absolutely crucial. He has specific ideas for addressing the drop-out issue and closing the achievement gap.

[SparkleHugs]

I really hope the swing voters take not to such things Lester. and thanks for doing that research for me ;)

[ForeverRebel]

LOL Nevada isn't the worst anymore! Yes! lmao.

Our education system sucks. I grew up with parents who did extra teching to me at home to make sure I had a better one since we couldn't afford private school.

That said, our state is republican too over all. Bleh. It does make me laugh the "smarter" states are more democratic

[db44]

Universal education is something the Republicans are afraid to face. I would guess because they do so well manipulating the uneducated.

But also, it costs money, and the party seems to think that's one place we should cut spending... They feel there are enough good schools for the people they want to get eduacted, and that with voucher programs and such, those who want a better education can get it.

Of course, that also means it's only for those who can afford to go to another district for school. So they can promote their vouchers or similar programs (as McCain did in his speech), but in reality, it helps the people only they want while maintaining a poor education for the people they still find undesireable.

[LesterX]

I really hope the swing voters take not to such things Lester. and thanks for doing that research for me ;)

I hope so too, but unfortunately I doubt it!

[FOJ]

Is that all you folks have? Is it the best you can do to insult voters/residents in states like Arizona and Alaska? No wonder they call leftists 'elistist'.

First of all, John McCain has as much power over education in Arizona as I do. He's not the governor; he's not the superintendent; he's not a state legislator. Unless you all need a basic primer on how our government works, you should know that a US Senator has nothing to do with how his state's education system works (or doesn't).

Secondly, Palin's been in office less than 2 years, yet the expectations are that she's miraculously turned things around in less than 24 months?! Please. Governor Rendell here in PA is MAJORLY focused on education, which I like, and after 6 years in office now is just starting to see dividends on his investment in education.

But, please, by all means, if you leftists want to lose the election, please go ahead and continue to call people from AZ and AK stupid. That is surely a winning strategy.

[tiger_rascal]

:eek:

:nc:

[DoubleEdgeSword]

First of all, John McCain has as much power over education in Arizona as I do. He's not the governor; he's not the superintendent; he's not a state legislator. Unless you all need a basic primer on how our government works, you should know that a US Senator has nothing to do with how his state's education system works (or doesn't).



Congress passes law that effects education, especially in the area of funding. To say that Sen. McCain has "no power" over education in his home state is disingenuous.

As a presidential candidate, Sen. McCain has touted an "education plan" for America. For that matter, so has Sen. Obama. McCain's platform is "letting parents choose," he says. That's it. Obama's plan is comprehensive and detailed. At a federal level, there is much government can do to improve America's educational system without intruding on the states' autonomy.

[lions1mew]

I'm in Arizona, I'm a Liberal Democrat and I KNOW the education system in this state is the pits. The only shining star in it is the International Baccalaureate Program at select schools where kids who are bright (like my daughter *beams*) can excel and continue to college well prepared.

The drop-out rates in the FEDERAL areas of the Native American reservations are ridiculously high. But the FEDERAL government doesn't seem to care. Gee ... wonder why?

[db44]

Talk about elitist: Let the parents choose. In other words, if you have the money to send your children to a better district, go ahead. You that aren't elite are SOL.

As DES says, McCain has a say in the federal education system, which includes Arizona. Last check, that wasn't doing so hot, and also at last check, McCain supported Bush's We Left the Children Behind Act.

Now, in his small blurb about what he'd to about education, he wants to continued that failed policy.

By the way, all his plans are small blurbs... Two months away and this guy has no plans but how to blow smoke up everyone's butt? And you aren't scared?

[FOJ]

John McCain has ONE VOTE out of 100 in one house of Congress. And his vote only affects education on a national basis, and has no bearing on how Arizona specifically does outside the context of the nation as a whole.

And school choice will help many poor students who cannot escape the Democrat-controlled public school cesspools...er...systems, on their own by allowing them to choose better, many times private, schools where they can flourish. School choice is for everyone, not only the rich.

[db44]

Just again showing your elitist, blind view.

A voucher program.. How nice. Since you are so keen on pointing out McCain's Arizona, let's look at the Phoenix-Metro region. In the conglomerate of cities in the region, Paradise Valley/Scottsdale is pretty much considered the best of the school districts.

Now you have your voucher. You can go to school there, even though you are living in a poor section of Tempe... Thirty minutes away on a good day if you have a car. But you are 15 and obviously don't drive. Your parents have to be at work at 7, the time the doors open at the school. You're in another school district, and the school buses aren't coming down to Tempe to pick you up. The public bus system is rather horrid: You have to take one bus west-to-east to get to the north-south line. You have a wait for that north-south-line, on Scottsdale Ave, and it will still take you about an hour at the start of rush hour if you are lucky to get uptown. Then you have to still go west again! Another wait, another 5-10 minute ride if you are lucky.

So here you are, at 15 years old, needing to catch a bus at five to get to a voucher school. Then needing another two hours to get home.

Twelve hours of your day right there, between transport and school. When do you expect such a student will have time for dinner? When he or she should be doing homework? When he or she is sleeping?

I'm also so happy for you FOJ. I'm too elitist to want my child walking the streets in a bad neighborhood at 4:30 in the morning. But your enlightened soul, you are so proud to send a 13-year-old out among the muggers, the drug dealers, the random stabbings. Silly me for thinking my child's safety is the most important thing I have to take care of. Hey, you want your kid out in that so he or she can get to a better school, I hope he or she makes it home at the end of the day.

[LesterX]

And school choice will help many poor students who cannot escape the Democrat-controlled public school cesspools...er...systems, on their own by allowing them to choose better, many times private, schools where they can flourish. School choice is for everyone, not only the rich.

The Democrats control all the public school systems in this country, huh? That's a brilliant statement. Looks like we know who needs a primer on how government works.

As for school "choice"...thanks, but no thanks. Public schools are required to accept all children -- doesn't matter if they have multiple disabilities, are horrid test scores, terrible grades, etc. There is no mandate on private schools to do the same. (The vast majority of voucher schools are private, religious institutions.) Just because a parent has "choice" doesn't mean a quality school is going to accept the kid who has been failing, has a messed up family life resulting in negative behavior at school, is learning disabled, etc. So...you take funding away from public schools to pay for "school choice," siphon out the kids whose parents have the knowledge and resources to "choose" a different school (e.g., transportation to get the child to a more distant school, ability to pay tuition beyond what the voucher covers, etc.) and whose kids will be accepted at those schools, and leave the local public school with the most difficult-to-teach kids and less $. Voila! The public school underperforms. It's called a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Proponents of school choice like to argue that public schools will improve because they will have to "compete" with private schools. That argument is based on the false assumption that little to no effort is being made currently by public school systems. Nothing could be further from the truth. Are there crappy teachers and administrators out there? Sure. Is there an insane level of bureaucracy, particularly in large urban school districts? Sure. Are the majority of schools sitting back, doing nothing, while their students fail because there's no competition? Absolutely not. They try program after program, teaching strategy after teaching strategy, etc. I work with schools that have parent engagement programs, on-site mental health, tutoring, enrichment, school-linked/school-based health and social services, etc. and their test scores still suck. If they had the magic bullet to educate large numbers of impoverished English Language Learners, many of whom have severe behavioral problems or can't focus at school due to challenging family situations, they'd use it. Do you really think most people go into the field of education to sit back and watch children not reach their potential?

[NicksSummerGurl]

Where did Palin go to school? (college)

[SparkleHugs]

Idaho.

[Richard Tafoya]

Hawaii and Idaho, I believe.

[SparkleHugs]

she went to alot of schools according to wikipedia.

"Palin spent her first college semester at Hawaii Pacific College, transferring in 1983 to North Idaho College and then to the University of Idaho. She attended Matanuska-Susitna College in Alaska for one term, returning to the University of Idaho to complete her Bachelor of Science degree in communications-journalism, graduating in 1987.[16][17]"

[pinky]

Where did Palin go to school? (college)

Where didn't she?

Six schools in six years.

[pinky]

Proponents of school choice like to argue that public schools will improve because they will have to "compete" with private schools. That argument is based on the false assumption that little to no effort is being made currently by public school systems. Nothing could be further from the truth. Are there crappy teachers and administrators out there? Sure. Is there an insane level of bureaucracy, particularly in large urban school districts? Sure. Are the majority of schools sitting back, doing nothing, while their students fail because there's no competition? Absolutely not. They try program after program, teaching strategy after teaching strategy, etc. I work with schools that have parent engagement programs, on-site mental health, tutoring, enrichment, school-linked/school-based health and social services, etc. and their test scores still suck. If they had the magic bullet to educate large numbers of impoverished English Language Learners, many of whom have severe behavioral problems or can't focus at school due to challenging family situations, they'd use it. Do you really think most people go into the field of education to sit back and watch children not reach their potential?

Well said. I taught last year in a district that was very low-performing for a long period of time, and still is. (I chose to leave because it was a 45-minute drive, and over $50/week in gas.) I can assure you that this district, and the magnificent teachers in it, are doing everything in their power to turn their scores around. What holds them back is a variety of factors, none of which are the responsibility of the schools: poverty, transient population, non-English-speaking students, lack of support for education in the home, to name a few. The district tries every innovation they can find that will make learning accessible to their students, and test scores are on the rise, but by most measures, it's still a failing district.

FOJ, you can call it a "cesspool" if you'd like, but you'd be wrong.