Obama camp calls McCain sex-ed attack ad "perverse"

[Richard Tafoya]

Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/09/mccain-ad-obamas-lone-edu_n_125205.html

John McCain is out with a response ad to Barack Obama's attacks today on his education policy, accusing the Democratic nominee of not accomplishing a single education-related goal other than to promote "comprehensive sex education" to kindergartners. Seriously, it's come to this.

The spot, titled "Education," comes after the two candidates went back and forth over education issues most of Tuesday. It is an attack the Obama campaign should be ready for. The same lines were used against the Senator during his run for office in 2004 by challenger Alan Keyes, and were brought up during the primary by Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

In essence, Obama supported "age appropriate" sex-education for children as a means of teaching them what was proper or inproper touching, as well as to protect them against pedophiles, his campaign has said. Used in the context of the McCain campaign ad, however, Obama's stance becomes another one of those cultural issues that seems designed to alienate the Illinois Democrat from more socially moderate voters.


And very quickly, the Obama campaign came out with a hard hitting response, pointing to a series of education accomplishments made by Obama, and calling McCain "perverse" for the latest attack.

"It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls - a position that his friend Mitt Romney also holds. Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn't define what honor was. Now we know why," said Obama campaign spokesman Bill Burton.

[LesterX]

Yeah, every sane person knows that Obama wants to pass out condoms to five year olds and teach them how to use them.
:rolleyes:

I hope John McCain sleeps well at night now that he doesn't have to stay up worrying about maintaining his integrity.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

How Roveian.

[FOJ]

I've watched the ad and I agree with it. There is no reason whatsoever to teach anything about sex to kindergartners. There's no reason to discuss pedophilia attacks, appropriateness of touching, etc. with children who cannot comprehend it. Furthermore, this is a parent's responsibility, not a school district's.

Add one more reason why I won't vote for Obama.

[pinky]

Fool! Children that age are completely capable of understanding what it means to be touched inappropriately, and to know that they should always tell if someone touches them in a way that makes them uncomfortable.

[tiger_rascal]

But do we need our kindergarten teachers teaching our children this?

Where are the parents? It makes no sense.

That is beyond traumatizing to a 5 year old to have a strange adult tell them about stuff like that. Just, ewwww, gross. I dont think its their job. Sorry, but this is too much. Proper sex ed starting in jr. high, sure, but 5 year olds, no way. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and it looks like its time to draw a line.

[tiger_rascal]

What are they telling children in public schools these days? :eek:

Would they at least send a letter home first and ask the parents if they have spoken with their child about it first? It just makes no sense. Its like, who cares if these kids have parents, they dont have to raise their children, teachers do.

[LesterX]

But do we need our kindergarten teachers teaching our children this?

Where are the parents? It makes no sense.

That is beyond traumatizing to a 5 year old to have a strange adult tell them about stuff like that. Just, ewwww, gross. I dont think its their job. Sorry, but this is too much. Proper sex ed starting in jr. high, sure, but 5 year olds, no way. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and it looks like its time to draw a line.

How do you know it's traumatizing? If the issue is handled in a developmentally approriate manner, there is no reason for a child to be traumatized. If fact, I would argue that it has the potential to give the child a comfort level with a teacher that would lead them to say something if they were being abused at home. Your "ewwww, gross" response tells me that you might be traumatized, but that doesn't mean children will be.

As for leaving it to the parents, the sad reality is that plenty of parents sexually abuse their children. I doubt the parent pedophiles out there are teaching their children about inappropriate touching.

[LesterX]

There's no reason to discuss pedophilia attacks, appropriateness of touching, etc. with children who cannot comprehend it. Furthermore, this is a parent's responsibility, not a school district's.


So, have you personally reviewed all the curricula and determined that the lessons taught are not developmentally appropriate and therefore not comprehensible to kindergarteners? What are your qualifications for making such a determination?

[Richard Tafoya]

FOJ watched the ad and made a determination based on that. If it's on TV it must be true.

[FOJ]

It must be nice to live in a world where everyone who disagrees with you is just ignorant.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

But do we need our kindergarten teachers teaching our children this?

Where are the parents? It makes no sense.

That is beyond traumatizing to a 5 year old to have a strange adult tell them about stuff like that. Just, ewwww, gross. I dont think its their job. Sorry, but this is too much. Proper sex ed starting in jr. high, sure, but 5 year olds, no way. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and it looks like its time to draw a line.

Actually, Chad, at that age children do not have that "icky gross" sense about such things. That only develops later. Young children are sexually abused. It is not unreasonable to tell them, in terms they will understand, to report anyone who makes such advances. Now, we can stick our prudish heads in the sand and hope that all parents will educate their kids, but let's be real, they just don't. Let's also not forget that some of these abusers are the parents. I have no objection to young children being taught in classrooms to watch out for sexual predators anymore than I object to them being told to look both ways before they cross the street. Danger is danger.

[tiger_rascal]

I agree with that, but you all are making it sound like 97% of parents are abusing their children, so the teachers are forced to act.

Many children are traumatized (that might be too harsh of a word to use but whatever) by kindergarten every year, I see it every year since my nephew started school, the first day is horrible, all those kids screaming and crying having to be left with strangers in a strange place. Let alone having those people talk about stuff like pedophiles and such.

Just odd.

Maybe in first or second grade or something, but I think it should be approached very carefully and delicately.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

The world is a dangerous place for kids. We've been telling them for years, "don't take candy from strangers." Halloween has been turned upside down because of crazy people. Child abductions from bus stops, neighborhoods. We hear public warnings about all of that stuff, and I assume teachers talk to kids about it in the classroom. I don't understand the reluctance to warn kids about sexual predators. They are a very real threat.

[tiger_rascal]

Maybe in big cities, but not in my town. Not about child dangers, but about neighborhoods being dangerous. I live in a small town with a crime rate of about 2%. I've lived in this town for 7 years now and so far nothing has changed. Its a very peaceful town, Im not saying things cant happen, anything could happen at any moment, but not like in the big cities. I dont think it should be a federal issue, but more of a local issue. So maybe Obama is right in Chicago, but whats right for Chicago may not be right everywhere in the country.

[LesterX]

I agree with that, but you all are making it sound like 97% of parents are abusing their children, so the teachers are forced to act.

Nobody said or implied any such thing. It's quite simple: not all parents educate their children appropriately. Some parents sexually abuse their children. Schools teach children about all types of safety issues, and this is one of them. Do you object to schools teaching kids traffic safety, because that's a parent's job? (Oh wait, let me guess...that's not needed in small town America, only in the big bad cities.)

Many children are traumatized (that might be too harsh of a word to use but whatever) by kindergarten every year, I see it every year since my nephew started school, the first day is horrible, all those kids screaming and crying having to be left with strangers in a strange place. Let alone having those people talk about stuff like pedophiles and such.

What in the world does being scared on the first day of school because you're in a new place and away from your parents have to do with anything? Surely you don't think that sexual abuse prevention classes are taught on the first day of kindergarten?

[tiger_rascal]

I dont think any kind of sex ed should be taught to 5 year olds. First day of school or not.

[tiger_rascal]

And what about the pedophile teachers? You know that happens too! And I know some would say thats all the more reason to start teaching them young, but that could open up an entirely new way for some to abuse them.

[LesterX]

So maybe Obama is right in Chicago, but whats right for Chicago may not be right everywhere in the country.

So you think pedophilia is strictly an urban phenomenon? Most victims are abused by people who know them, not by some random person grabbing them off a city street.

The bill that Obama supported was a statewide bill. It wasn't just "for Chicago." Illinois is pretty dang rural in many parts.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

I dont think any kind of sex ed should be taught to 5 year olds. First day of school or not.


That's not sex education, Chad. It's teaching children to report an attack on them.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

And what about the pedophile teachers? You know that happens too! And I know some would say thats all the more reason to start teaching them young, but that could open up an entirely new way for some to abuse them.

So because there are pedophiles in all walks of life, let's not tell the kids anything? That makes no logical sense.

[LesterX]

And what about the pedophile teachers? You know that happens too! And I know some would say thats all the more reason to start teaching them young, but that could open up an entirely new way for some to abuse them.

Red herring. How does teaching children how not to be victimized open them up to an entirely new way for them to be abused? What in the world do you think happens during these lessons? The teachers are going "come here little Johnny, let's show the class all about inappropriate touching, shall we?" Good grief.

[LesterX]

That's not sex education, Chad. It's teaching children to report an attack on them.

Exactly. It's violence prevention.

[tiger_rascal]

I'd be interested in a national survey on this.

I cant get an accurate take on things in this forum, the Obama supporters will support anything he says or does, no matter what.

I've read the opinions here, the discussion cant progress any further. It will just be Obama is right, you are wrong.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

the Obama supporters will support anything he says or does, no matter what.



That's just plain insulting, Chad. I thought you knew me better than that.

[tiger_rascal]

I apologize, I really do.

But it does often seem that way in this forum. I have yet to see one poster that supports Obama say, "you know what, maybe I dont agree with him on this one issue." Not once. Yet.

Im wrong then. And I apologize.

[tiger_rascal]

I dont agree with him on this issue. Thats all. Thats my opinion.

[tiger_rascal]

That's not sex education, Chad. It's teaching children to report an attack on them.

If thats all it is, then I support that.

[LesterX]

I have yet to see one poster that supports Obama say, "you know what, maybe I dont agree with him on this one issue." Not once. Yet.


Maybe you need to read more carefully. Off the top of my head, I think Pinky has made it abundantly clear on numerous occasions that she is not pro-choice, and therefore disagrees with Obama on that issue.

Here's an issue with which I don't agree with Obama: Obama is pro-death penalty. I am not.

Happy now?

[tiger_rascal]

Is he really pro-death penalty?! :eek:

I never knew that.

See, I dont even know where Obama stands on issues, so I should just keep my mouth shut.

Once again, I sincerely do apologize if my post offended anyone.

[LesterX]

If thats all it is, then I support that.

That truly is all it is, which is what makes McCain's commercial so incredibly offensive. These programs do not talk about sex, per se.

Here's an overview of a program developed by the same people who developed the Second Step violence prevention program, which is used by schools throughout the country.

TALKING ABOUT TOUCHING Overview

A Personal Safety Curriculum
The TALKING ABOUT TOUCHING curriculum teaches children simple rules to guide them toward safe decision making. This research-based, teacher-friendly program explores well-being in a variety of situations and teaches:

* Safety rules about cars, bicycles, and pedestrians.
* What to do in the presence of guns or other weapons.
* How to respond to a fire emergency.
* Knowing when to ask permission from a caregiver.
* The definition of a safe touch and how to respond to unwanted touches.
* Standing up for safety in an assertive manner.
* Asking for help in uncomfortable and possibly dangerous situations.

Safety Skills Prevent Victimization
Incidences of child abuse know no borders, boundaries, or incomes. They occur in every class, culture, and ethnic group. Abuse isn't the only danger facing children. Harm can come from a variety of potentially dangerous situations—including fires, traffic, and proximity to firearms.

Classroom use of the TALKING ABOUT TOUCHING program provides children with the safety skills they need to prevent victimization.


http://www.cfchildren.org/programs/tat/overview/

[tiger_rascal]

Well I feel foolish now. :noway:

I thought it was something else.

Please accept my apologies.

[LesterX]

Accepted! That's the problem with an ad like McCain's though -- it's incredibly misleading. The tag line is "Learning about sex before learning to read?" (The word sex is in a large font, of course, as that's what they want everyone to focus on.) Most people aren't going to take the time to learn what exactly Obama supports -- they just walk away from the ad thinking he wants to teach 5 year olds about sex. Obama is right -- the ad is perverse.

[db44]

Excuse me for going on a possible tangent, and not a pretty one Chad, but you do realize West Virginia has a reputation for incest, right? Even Dick Cheney joked about it... One of the few of his many stupid moments he actually apologized for.

I bring this up because, call me dumb, but I for some reason connect incest and molestation. So I'm not sure your region is above this, as you seem to suggest.

[SparkleHugs]

I apologize, I really do.

But it does often seem that way in this forum. I have yet to see one poster that supports Obama say, "you know what, maybe I dont agree with him on this one issue." Not once. Yet.

Im wrong then. And I apologize.

i dont agree with him on certain elements of his education plan, or his positions on immigration, in addition to some other things i need to research a little more. But i fully support him and will vote for him in November.

My mother taught me what to be aware of when it comes to strangers and inappropriate touching etc. being a girl, it seemed natural to protect her from rape etc. It never occurred to my mother to teach the same things to her son. Thus, he was molested for 7 years by a close family friend. If he had been taught in kindergarden what was right and wrong when it comes to people touching him, it would have NEVER gone on for as long as it did. sometimes schools should pick up where the parents fail, and sometimes the parents should pick up where the schools fail. its a joint effort to protect children. the more aware they are, the better.

and the truth of the matter is, MANY children are molested BEFORE kindergarden ever beins.

and just because you live in a small crimeless town doesnt mean it isnt something that 5 year old chilren across the country shouldnt be taught what to do if someone made inappropriate advances. my brother has been teaching his son what to watch for since he was old enough to comprehend sentences. In addition, just because your town has a crime rate of 2% doesnt mean that children don't get molested there. this is the biggest kept secret. something like 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 children are molested across the country. and that is just the ones that report it. Pedophilla happens, and its time we stop turning our cheeks to avoid making people feel uncomfortable. Think about how those little kids feel when an adults hand goes down their pants. do you think that feels comfortable?

[tiger_rascal]

Excuse me for going on a possible tangent, and not a pretty one Chad, but you do realize West Virginia has a reputation for incest, right? Even Dick Cheney joked about it... One of the few of his many stupid moments he actually apologized for.

I bring this up because, call me dumb, but I for some reason connect incest and molestation. So I'm not sure your region is above this, as you seem to suggest.

Im not sure what the stats are exactly. I would hope not too high. The crime rate in my area is very low, we're talking like 2%. Im sure sexual crimes are included in this 2%.

[tiger_rascal]

Another thing, Dave. WV is also supposed to be "known" for being dead last in education, turns out we are #37, not in the top 10, but also not in the bottom 10.

There are many misconceptions about WV. At least Hillary loves us and we love her.

[pinky]

I never thought of WV as being last in education, Chad. I would have thought that "honor" would have been awarded to a state in the deep South.

[tiger_rascal]

Oh, ok, the deep, deep south.

But still, many people make fun of WV. And honestly, it makes no sense.

[db44]

I never though WV was dead last either... I'd read enough reports to have not thought that.

[DoubleEdgeSword]

Here's an issue with which I don't agree with Obama: Obama is pro-death penalty. I am not.



Neither am I. He also doesn't support gay marriage. I disagree with him strongly on both of those issues.

[LesterX]

Neither am I. He also doesn't support gay marriage. I disagree with him strongly on both of those issues.

Yep, I'm with you there too.

[pinky]

But still, many people make fun of WV. And honestly, it makes no sense.

Yes, it does. :tongue:

[tiger_rascal]

:nc:

Sometimes its funny. I like poking fun at myself. We West Virginians like to play with the stereotypes and make fun of the people who believe in them.

:tongue:

[pinky]

I'm still confused about the couch-burning that goes on in Morgantown.....